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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

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Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2015-03-26 01:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zheng'Yi Sao
If anything, whatever they do, the heavy hitting mining platforms should require the same level of training as a Rorqual; maybe a Rorqual and anchoring/starbase defense ability. Otherwise, any and every snot nosed greenhorn miner will be dropping the same thing we have trained months for at the expense of a a few anchoring skill points. Think of the potential space junk we are talking about here.

Second, if you want me to park my immovable, multi-billion ISK contraption where it is gonna get blopped anyways, give it some teeth. Maybe cores we have to switch, maybe from industry to bastion or something like that. Shouldn't be able to fight and do industry simultaneously. Yes, a handful of Skiffs have some teeth, but once our drones get blapped down, it's curtains. What do Rorquals have to fight with? Oh, yes: drones. Right now, the only weapon I have is being faster and smarter (oh, and a POS bubble to hide in). It can be fun, but it doesn't get you many kills. If I can ECM, smartbomb, point, web, and generally raise high holy hell if i wanna fight for my turf, I am all for making a stand. I was so involved trying to kill this confessor with my alt last night, I completely failed to notice this toon didn't manage to warp off. That is another matter though... P

Come get some.

Since this is stream of consciousnesses style... Imagine how cool a jump capable platform would be? Isn't this essentially what these new Jove structures are? Imagine roaming from system to system, mining as we cyno to our advance force prospects. So much empty space is out there. We could even drop into a red system with our platforms, or into a border system to offload our goods. Keep your SOV, I want your ore. Imagine roaming gangs of nomadic miners going at it with local dreads and carriers, or other mining gangs? Imagine the escalations? Suddenly, all us carebears can fight for our turf. How funny would a mining platform hotdrop be? Lol

(cyno) BAM!!! Angry miners...

RORQUAL PILOTS UNITE!!!

Thukker Tribe eat your heart out.

Come to think of it, the jump/combat capable platform sounds more like a cool Rorqual. That just isnt' allowed...

Fun is secured. Carry on.

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#102 - 2015-03-26 02:17:04 UTC
so all these discussions about these platforms.
but zero mention of consideration of the skills required to build what.

ccp you need to come more forth on skills requirements before even moving a step closer.

or are you going to allow everyone to build everything once they reach outpost construction lvl 1??
Rialen
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2015-03-26 04:55:05 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
so all these discussions about these platforms.
but zero mention of consideration of the skills required to build what.

ccp you need to come more forth on skills requirements before even moving a step closer.

or are you going to allow everyone to build everything once they reach outpost construction lvl 1??




wouldn't you determine the skills after you actually know what you want to do with this feature? Right now, they don't even know what to do with the structure feature, so I don't see how they can consider what skills is required.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#104 - 2015-03-26 07:41:19 UTC
Rialen wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
so all these discussions about these platforms.
but zero mention of consideration of the skills required to build what.

ccp you need to come more forth on skills requirements before even moving a step closer.

or are you going to allow everyone to build everything once they reach outpost construction lvl 1??




wouldn't you determine the skills after you actually know what you want to do with this feature? Right now, they don't even know what to do with the structure feature, so I don't see how they can consider what skills is required.



you should determine the skills required during.

S,M,L, XL.

im sure outpost construction 5 would be for the XL.

but as anchoring skills at lvl 4 pretty much covers everything deployable.. they need to establish what does what at each level of outpost construction. from 1- 5..

and of course it would be even greater they resolve the ME and TE on these skills cause afterall they may or may not even be worthwhile.

they still have yet to explain what they're doing since teams were removed.

lots of industry issues at hand building these structures.

so its a valid question
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#105 - 2015-03-26 07:56:09 UTC
Let people blacklist individual characters from the market hubs, not just whole groups.

At a cost, of course.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Anthar Thebess
#106 - 2015-03-26 10:35:12 UTC
Alliance internal market could be nice.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2015-03-26 11:39:46 UTC
I created a topic for this idea but it fell stright of the currentlyvery small new posts section on the first page:

I propose an additional structure in the new scheme. The Planetary Colony would have the same fitting screen an options as it's orbital cousins and would replace the existing PI setup with command centres, factories etc. Instead functions such as factories, extractors and storage would be provided via modules with rigs allowing fine tuning of the base for extraction, manufacture etc.

This would allow for the replacement of the existing system with player built structures and also for many of the niggles people have with the current system to be ironed out.

Please note that this is not a proposal to bring links to DUST. This is simply an idea to replace the existing system with one that is standardized in the new structure UI. To summarize:

- Modules would provide Basic, Advanced and High-Tech Production Services. Services available would be listed in a drop down or similar and broken into sub-menus of P1, P2, P3, and P4 schematics.

- Modules would provide Storage increase and launchpad facilities for POCO interaction (Rockey launches would be available as now.

- Modules would provide extractor heads

- Tech I and II modules available, with increased output from schematics for tech II modules (requires level IV or V skill as deemed appropriate.

- One standard storage area with modules providing expanded general storage or higher volume specialized storage for raw materials or processed goods.

- Rigs to improve extractor yields, storage volume, shematics yields an rocket launch yield.

- Possibly a module to allow for smuggling runs (~200 m3 of goods per run), ship must be in (at planetary launch warp-in point) and uncloaked to pick up the drop ship, 30 second launch time. Completely circumvents launch/POCO taxes. Losec/Null/WH only.

- All modules and the Colony hub will be player built.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#108 - 2015-03-26 13:44:53 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Rialen wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
so all these discussions about these platforms.
but zero mention of consideration of the skills required to build what.

ccp you need to come more forth on skills requirements before even moving a step closer.

or are you going to allow everyone to build everything once they reach outpost construction lvl 1??




wouldn't you determine the skills after you actually know what you want to do with this feature? Right now, they don't even know what to do with the structure feature, so I don't see how they can consider what skills is required.



you should determine the skills required during.

S,M,L, XL.

im sure outpost construction 5 would be for the XL.

but as anchoring skills at lvl 4 pretty much covers everything deployable.. they need to establish what does what at each level of outpost construction. from 1- 5..

and of course it would be even greater they resolve the ME and TE on these skills cause afterall they may or may not even be worthwhile.

they still have yet to explain what they're doing since teams were removed.

lots of industry issues at hand building these structures.

so its a valid question

Go see the pictures in that devblog they have skills in them

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#109 - 2015-03-26 19:02:44 UTC
the skills listed in the examples.. were examples

it list anchoring 3... then all types of hub/office operation skills

what the hell happens to outpost construction 5

just by viewing these pics.. its shows even more "new skills"

which gives even greater impression that folks will have to buy more skill books and train them up.


which opens even more questions as to .. per what level will observatory/admin/advertisement/hub operation provide?

this is a clusterfawk of skills training going by those pics
Kazaheid Zaknafein
Zaknafein Tactical Reconnaissance
#110 - 2015-03-27 00:41:22 UTC
It would be cool to have the Drilling Platform generate a variable sized astroid belt containing rocks that have ore based on what its anchored to.

The belt would increase in size based on the platform size
Moon goo and raw PI mats could generate as part of the belts, in very small quantities
Perhaps allow the fitting of mining lasers into the high-slots allowing the structure to be manned and used to mine its own belt: 8 strip miners sounds op, but it is limited to its own belt as to what it can mine.
The belts should be tied to system location and the systems natural ore distribution; no Jaspet in a .9 Minmatar system, and the belt should only regenerate after downtime.

Potential rigs could be fitted that maybe increase the quality of the ore, size of the belt, or size of the individual rocks.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#111 - 2015-03-27 03:25:47 UTC
Just wanted to add the idea that a station like this (or any of them, possibly) could have its own bay for deploying fighters, probably by using one or more high slots of course.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2015-03-27 09:54:30 UTC
Kazaheid Zaknafein wrote:
It would be cool to have the Drilling Platform generate a variable sized astroid belt containing rocks that have ore based on what its anchored to.

The belt would increase in size based on the platform size
Moon goo and raw PI mats could generate as part of the belts, in very small quantities
Perhaps allow the fitting of mining lasers into the high-slots allowing the structure to be manned and used to mine its own belt: 8 strip miners sounds op, but it is limited to its own belt as to what it can mine.
The belts should be tied to system location and the systems natural ore distribution; no Jaspet in a .9 Minmatar system, and the belt should only regenerate after downtime.

Potential rigs could be fitted that maybe increase the quality of the ore, size of the belt, or size of the individual rocks.


Drilling platforms producing asteroid belts isn't such a bad idea except it would need careful consideration wrt very secure areas of null. Deep inside one of the big allinace homes would allow a huge amount of mining in almost complete safety and if people are using caps/supercaps less now then less will be being destroyed. It could easily lead to a glut in minerals if they aren't being consumed somewhere.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2015-03-27 10:00:36 UTC
An extension to my idea for using this structure format for PI colonies, perhaps have a militarized version that performs no PI but does provide additonal orbital station defense via orbital defense lasers/cannons. Gives something to throw the orbital bombardment ammo at during attacks too.
Apollo Amdonen
Holy Amarrian Order of Clarity
#114 - 2015-03-27 16:50:44 UTC
Here are an issue that needs clarifying. In dev blog it is mentioned that POCO are “glorified storage containers” well they are far from that. They are tax collection tools, with the ability to move stuff in and out of planet and they do have some storage capability. However they are not very good as they are, they do their job but they could do it so much better. Anyhow they are awesome conflict drivers as they are now. One ball / planet and possession of that ball makes profit possible.

The single tax based on standings is very limiting. Lets say you want to give a folks low tax percentage that is currently tied to +10 standing, then again you don't want to give them blue standing for you corp otherwise. So tax should not be only a standing issue, there should be also other ways to set tax rates for alliances, corps or even down to individual pilots. There should also be ability to have a different tax for taking stuff out from the plant to that of putting goods back in and ability to set the tax based on the tier of PI.

Ex. lets say that PI tax has been set to 5%. That could be ok for someone who is doing Tier 1 or Tier 2 production on single planet and selling those as they are. 5% tax could be quite acceptable. But if you want to do tier 3 or tier 4 production the 5% tax becomes unbearable. If you make Tier one on your main harvesting planets, take that out, and have factory planets to produce those to Tier 3 and finally have hi-tech factory planet for tier 4 stuff you are looking a totally different gross tax percentage. T1 up 5%, TI down to first factory planet another 5% take stuff up again 5% stuff it to high tech planet and take up again another 10%. Even if you just would do from T1 to T4 in single planet that TAX rate would just be outrageous with 5% tax. So in economic matter more simple is not always better.

Other way would be ability to get some tax kickbacks etc. for producing higher tier stuff, but that system could be more complicated and maybe open for exploits.

Good, clear but powerful interface would be needed for setting the tax rates.

Also currently you don't know what pocos tax rate you are adjusting if you are it is done from out of system.

What is really the view on POCOs? Dev blog does not say much about them.

Apollo
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2015-03-27 17:19:50 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
the skills listed in the examples.. were examples

it list anchoring 3... then all types of hub/office operation skills

what the hell happens to outpost construction 5

just by viewing these pics.. its shows even more "new skills"

which gives even greater impression that folks will have to buy more skill books and train them up.


which opens even more questions as to .. per what level will observatory/admin/advertisement/hub operation provide?

this is a clusterfawk of skills training going by those pics


I agree that the images did not give the final choices for all the skills, but then early stages, what do you expect?

IF they follow past patterns of play then I think it would make sense that the bigger/better the build the more skill you will need in that specific task.

I wonder if there will be enough skills for there to be people who train and become the 'architect wing' of a fleet. The ones who set things up because the others cannot be bothered. Kind of like the fools who go all the way through and train FC V. I, for one, would like that. So that is what I will encourage in discussions.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2015-03-27 21:31:22 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
...

I wonder if there will be enough skills for there to be people who train and become the 'architect wing' of a fleet. The ones who set things up because the others cannot be bothered. Kind of like the fools who go all the way through and train FC V. I, for one, would like that. So that is what I will encourage in discussions.

m


I'd buy that for a dollar...
Sarah Eginald
Git R Done Resources
#117 - 2015-03-27 21:56:24 UTC
Taking about skills

Maybe do the same thing they did to anchoring skills is you need 1 of the structure to anchor it but each level gives you a bonus.

If you anchor a drilling platform and you have drilling platform anchoring 5 you get 25% reduction in fuel used by structure.

I think though 1 single structure type that is modified by rigs and service modules would be more productive. Since people could build there own structure for use by them. Weather they want trad, drilling platform, or research assembly platform.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#118 - 2015-03-28 01:31:16 UTC
Personally I think that certain kinds of illegal products should only be tradable in player owned market hubs, things like boosters or some new stuff
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#119 - 2015-03-28 06:48:38 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
the skills listed in the examples.. were examples

it list anchoring 3... then all types of hub/office operation skills

what the hell happens to outpost construction 5

just by viewing these pics.. its shows even more "new skills"

which gives even greater impression that folks will have to buy more skill books and train them up.


which opens even more questions as to .. per what level will observatory/admin/advertisement/hub operation provide?

this is a clusterfawk of skills training going by those pics


I agree that the images did not give the final choices for all the skills, but then early stages, what do you expect?

IF they follow past patterns of play then I think it would make sense that the bigger/better the build the more skill you will need in that specific task.

I wonder if there will be enough skills for there to be people who train and become the 'architect wing' of a fleet. The ones who set things up because the others cannot be bothered. Kind of like the fools who go all the way through and train FC V. I, for one, would like that. So that is what I will encourage in discussions.

m



then mike, I suggest you and CSM get on the job and discuss this skills training and the requirements this guys is dreaming up, cause according to their TBD/TBA phase transitions. Once we get to the part of the starbase removal..

wouldn't that mean certain players would need the highest skill trained in order to build the starbase structure where everyone will keep their inventory and dock? what happens to all our items/ships in the station that's being removed and the builder hasn't had enough time to not only gather the mineral requirements, but also the skill to set the "new egg",

are they just planning on removing the station and saying HTFU get to building the new one or something else?

I know this is far down the road (crossing fingers).. but what is the plan about skills requirement?
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#120 - 2015-03-28 11:09:25 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Personally I think that certain kinds of illegal products should only be tradable in player owned market hubs, things like boosters or some new stuff


You would still have to get the drugs to the station without being caught by customs authorities. So what we actually need is either a new ship type with specific role bonuses to enable customs evasion OR a new skill set to maybe give a 'roll of the dice' chance based system that customs ships will not detain you. I believe you can trade in boosters or other 'illegal' products in stations or via the contracts system already.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .