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Frequency of Events

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Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1 - 2015-03-22 14:33:29 UTC
I'm trying not to rant here so bare with me, this is a subject near and dear to my heart and its going to take some explaining.

Out of character knowledge is something most non rp'ers don't really get. to summarize it really briefly a good example is Empress Jamyl sharing grey matter with the Entity. We as players know about this thanks to the lovely writing in Emperian Age and Templar One but capsulleers though mighty and influenced at best only hear whispers that on the odd day she is not self.

This separation is best described from an RP stand point as meta game knowledge and is not something the RPing factions of the game will act on till something happens in game we can see, learn and react to.

That being said I understand that the direction CCP wants to take is to let us direct the story. That's fine and all but like the stereotypical GM at the head of a table top game if CCP is silent then I don't know what I'm reacting to or if my actions have any impact.

"Your in a locked room."
"I pick the door lock"
"........"
"I break the door"
"........"

The game can not progress.

What more if frustrating is CCP made a big show that fanfest was the in game equivalent to an in game event. They did this for weeks calling it the "Conference for Emergent Threats". Many more then myself figured we would be told something in a ingame capacity. That someone would say show us something we can use to know whats happening next.

Instead we were offered a trailer with out of game knowledge again and nothing we can use in game at all.

If my character knew that the sleepers were collecting fallen capsulleer bodied he'd be pushing his alliance and his allies to destroy them on sight.

But since nothing happens in game that lets me know this bit of information and the lore panel was fairly mum on whats going on currently, and there was no in game events that pushed the plot forward myself and other RP'ers of this game are stuck in the locked room till either the GM wakes up or returns to his seat from whatever bio break hes on.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Frenjo Borkstar
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-03-22 14:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Frenjo Borkstar
I agree completely. As a lore-nerd and massive RPer, being able to develop the story is a great power to put in the players' hands. But if CCP doesn't respond to our actions, then the story can't, and won't, progress.

At the moment, all the research and experiments we do show nothing, until CCP responds and tells us what we discover/see/happens. When I send a transmission in local at a site/system of interest, I expect at least a random 'Message >' or something to happen, even if it does spawn 100 sleeper battleships to swamp me. The stuff we're doing needs to be monitored, so responses can be acted out accordingly.

It's critical that CCP do something to give us more in-game knowledge.

Viriel,

Borkstar Laboratories,

The Borkstar Initiative.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#3 - 2015-03-22 14:58:34 UTC
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
CCP Falcon
#4 - 2015-03-23 09:00:56 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#5 - 2015-03-23 10:12:26 UTC
Eve isn't just what happens while you're logged into the client. Don't be so steadfast in your refusal of meta information. Scope videos are the equivalent of the news you might see in-game. Information you gather through forums or dev posts or just about anything can be assumed to be accessible to your character. "Spoilers" about what's happening to NPCs in the world you read about in novels can be well-spread rumors that your character has heard about. Information is readily available in the Eve world.

Find a way to explain the things you know - don't wait for CCP to be your personal GM and move your story along.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-03-23 11:43:33 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink


The problem is this has been a long running problem Falcon.
Information and actions generate dead silence far too often.
And certain people seem/claim to be given information.

This generates a lot of 'why bother' sentiment which is very very very bad for things to actually happen.

Having been in the GM's shoes in similar roles on much smaller servers I do appreciate how hard it is, but the number of times this topic has come up shows that there is a serious issue here that is preventing events from being as popular long term as they could be. The overwhelming numbers that get involved when an event is actually scheduled show people want to be involved. Just in the mean time it seems like 99.9% of peoples involvement is a waste of their time, since it comes at the expense of making isk or having fun in other ways. And banging your head against a brick wall pointlessly time and time again isn't fun. Which is what trying to be involved with events really feels like at the moment.
Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2015-03-23 11:47:15 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Eve isn't just what happens while you're logged into the client. Don't be so steadfast in your refusal of meta information. Scope videos are the equivalent of the news you might see in-game. Information you gather through forums or dev posts or just about anything can be assumed to be accessible to your character. "Spoilers" about what's happening to NPCs in the world you read about in novels can be well-spread rumors that your character has heard about. Information is readily available in the Eve world.

Find a way to explain the things you know - don't wait for CCP to be your personal GM and move your story along.


I can tell the difference and yes I do have to wait. A loyal Amarrian RP'er isn't going to do something that pisses off his government if he can help it. Frankly it seems like a bit of a insult that I'm just expected to do whatever well King Khanid and the Empress just roll their eyes and say "Well that's our capsulleers!"

CCP Falcon wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink



Falcon, I love you but you have any idea of how much of a coop out that comes across? I'm not expecting you or anyone else to baby sit the rp'ers twenty four seven but literally IC Im stuck.

Maybe an example is in order:
Hilen Tukoss, tried to arrest him and track him down for years to the benefit of my caldari allies. He dropped of the map. (project on hold)
Tried to go to the SoE help in Thera when I re subbed last December. No in game event to do some. Its just implied I did except I didn't. (project unknown)
Tried to communicate with the drifters and learn about them, give m them a fair shake before going all Amarrian on their ass. (project on hold due to lack of in game knowledge and fear of upsetting the plans of my government)

That last one is really frustrating because anyone government would have said something by now. Its been a month throw me a bone here.

Theses are your events Falcon, I'm not demanding you make more and dance for me I'm asking you to stop leaving all these seemingly unfinished projects about.

Look I played secret world and they like to do stuff like this but they don't stone wall you with 'well you did learn alot but the rest hasn't come out yet'. They have a mystery, we solve it and if we do we know. This ambiguity needs to stop.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#8 - 2015-03-23 14:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Agondray
CCP Falcon wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink



yeah but the drifters are everywhere and had a big event leading to their reveal of a star exploding but some graphics basicly, 0 on who these seekers are other then they are supper powerful and battleships can 1 hit a carrier.
past a prize in the game not many people care about the rp element and I guess ccp doesn't either past making a trailer or the cheesy bit that guard does.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-03-24 14:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Yeah I mean, if the EVEN doesn't happen NOW how am I supposed to CREATE CONTENT in this SANDBOX?

As a human in the real world, I am frequently involved in every major political/scientific/artistic event of each and every week. These things unveil themselves instantly in a gratifying way that makes my life important among the 10s of thousands that live in my city.

Never do I go out and do my daily chores, as that is not enough of a "narrative." I need the world reacting and changing to me, and I don't mean the people around me. Anyone can influence those. I need the rocks and stones repositioning, tectonic shifts because -I- alone can act.


As someone in Thera there is plenty of RP-able interaction there and plenty of ways to roleplay in this game that do not involve the Dev's at all. If you want to play Spaceman spiff Saves the Universe, Mass Effect is that way -->

also I realize you tried t ocommuinicate with the drifters. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Drifters do not want to communicate with you? I'm being serious. You can RP against their lack of interaction (and you have to also respect the limits of what EVE as an engine can do.)
Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#10 - 2015-03-24 14:48:21 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Yeah I mean, if the EVEN doesn't happen NOW how am I supposed to CREATE CONTENT in this SANDBOX?

As a human in the real world, I am frequently involved in every major political/scientific/artistic event of each and every week. These things unveil themselves instantly in a gratifying way that makes my life important among the 10s of thousands that live in my city.

Never do I go out and do my daily chores, as that is not enough of a "narrative." I need the world reacting and changing to me, and I don't mean the people around me. Anyone can influence those. I need the rocks and stones repositioning, tectonic shifts because -I- alone can act.


As someone in Thera there is plenty of RP-able interaction there and plenty of ways to roleplay in this game that do not involve the Dev's at all. If you want to play Spaceman spiff Saves the Universe, Mass Effect is that way -->

also I realize you tried t ocommuinicate with the drifters. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Drifters do not want to communicate with you? I'm being serious. You can RP against their lack of interaction (and you have to also respect the limits of what EVE as an engine can do.)


So now we know who in this thread missed the point.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#11 - 2015-03-26 11:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
CCP Falcon wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink


That seems like a huge cop-out to me, sadly. sorry to say it.

CCP is adding a lot of things that makes us ask questions, but isn't adding much in game to provide answers.
When wormholes and sleepers were added, you got some info about what a site was, and you could read descriptions of the structures in there. Even the contents of the shattered holes leave some clues as to what they are and possibly what might have happened.

With these new things showing up on K-space however, we have nothing. They just show up, and don't do much of else. The descriptions are more or less shrugs of the shoulders that we don't know what this is, and there isn't a single thing players can do to find out more about them. We've tried bumping following, and using every active module there is to interact with these new sleepers drifters and Jove towers, and NOTHING happens. There are ZERO actions that players can take to find out more. Waiting for CCP to just drip feed us another morsel is not an action for players to take.

We need to be able to scan, probe bump and shoot our way to getting the next tidbit IN GAME rather than just have our actions cause nothing important to happen till the next release adds another item.

The problem with the current way things are going is we aren't really interacting with the unfolding universe. No matter what we do to try we are still nothing but observers, and that's what has us so annoyed. if you are going to say the story in EvE doesn't become real until players interact with it, then you need to actually let us interact with that story.

I would say we SHOULDN'T get all the answers for all our probing, but we should get SOME, and right now we aren't getting any at all.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#12 - 2015-03-27 19:29:14 UTC
CCP has been doing some good work putting lore stuff into the game for players to puzzle through and interact with in a meaningful way. That said, I agree with the OP that we should see more interaction and particularly CCP should move away from "Supar Sekrit" plot devices that are revealed OOC with no way for us to do anything about them IC.

IMO everything that's been revealed in EVE tie in fiction / novels should eventually be possible for our characters to find out IC. Maybe that wouldn't make sense in "Real Life" where obviously the innermost secrets of militaries and governments don't make it to the public... but we are playing an internet spaceships game!

Probably the #1 complaint I hear from EVE Lore fans is about crap like the Broker in Empyrean Age. We have a series of inexplicable events impacting the whole lore that every RPer in EVE is required to maintain a huge IC/OCC wall about. You look at the topics on the IGS and damn near every one of them comes back to those events. It'd be one thing if there were only a few IC/OOC problems like this for EVE RPers, but it seems to me that practically ALL of the major plot developments over the last few years have suffered in the same way.

From now on, please please release some mission content or something that lets our characters explore the same plot themes that drive the fiction in EVE.

It isn't as if CCP doesn't have its own positive history of accomplishments to build on. I wasn't personally around for Arek'Jalan, but my lore friends praise that effort consistently. Again, I think CCP is doing better with how they're weaving Sleeper / WH / Caroline's Star / Thera / Drifters ect in with player actions. I think there's been some really strong emergent content there.

After my first fanfest, having had the chance to interact first hand with a few of the CCP Devs, I know ya'll care and are working hard on this. I have a lot of respect for what you are accomplishing, and I'm also very hopeful that with the new AI for NPCs and new Mission / PVE content that we can see some great new stories written within the sandbox.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#13 - 2015-04-10 15:53:53 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
If you expect CCP react to every small thing that pearson does in game to make him "space important"... it won't happen.

Noticing the difference between IC and OOC knowledge seems logical... use common sense and when in doubt ask other people that care.

The Scope video feels like published to early it should have been published(ingame allusion to Fanfest anyway) after the next release is deplyed on 24th.
The trailer... well it's a trailer and stuff within it will be know to us IC on the 24th also.


This, pretty much.

What you also need to understand is that the world is a wierd and wonderful place.

Even on this little dustball we inhabit that's orbiting the sun, not everyone knows about everything, and not everyone knows what's going on.

Just because the entire cluster isn't in the know, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening.

More will be come apparent in the coming months. Patience is a virtue.

Blink




Did you find Dropbear's old notes yet? Cool

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#14 - 2015-04-12 21:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
This makes me internally thrash about in rage but there have been observations and experiments ongoing and I can't share any of it because I have every reason not to IC. XD

I will say though, Kithrus, there needs to be a massive ongoing IC committee on the Drifter threat. And Thera residents who could present a neutral face might be the best ones to spearhead it. There is still massive amounts of room in this sandbox for us yet to build up to the answers. The biggest barrier I see will be people's willingness to work together.