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CSM meets CCP Senior Producer Zulu about your concerns

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#401 - 2011-09-13 22:03:14 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Then your completly missing the point arent you. This is not hostility its apathy and disillusion towards a process of blah blah that most people have absolutly no faith in. July achieved absolutly nothing. Comments like this CSM is going to achieve more than previous ones at this moment in time are as delusional as any $1000 dollar jeans comment.


Wow, you sure do have a neat way of showing your apathy. I mean, shouldn't posting here be far too much effort for the truly apathetic?

Temulkar Blaine wrote:

If the CSM were doing such a great job at representing players disatisfaction and CCP were listening then sub numbers and players online wouldnt be dropping faster than a hookers panties.


Bolded the important part for you. FFS, we took time off work and all got on planes with 5 days notice to represent you.

Temulkar Blaine wrote:

Personally CSM would have been better served carrying on with this press campaign and keeping the pressure up rather than entering yet more meaningless dialogue! CSM only called you in to stop that campaign, who do you think is laughing into their rotten shark?

come back to the community with roadmaps, devblogs, dates, somthing tangible and youll get a better response.


All that stuff is the role of CCP, not the CSM. We have clearly articulated what our objective here is, which is to get CCP to devote more resources to FiS (a.k.a. EVE Online), and less to Incarna/WoD/DUST. This is a process, not something that can be solved in a single meeting. We have started that process, perhaps you might consider waiting for the results before you decide if we failed.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#402 - 2011-09-13 22:04:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Two step wrote:

There isn't some mythical 3rd choice here that we are not choosing to spite you.


Mittens hypnotised you into not disclosing the mythical 3rd choice just admit it


Hmm, I don't remember anything, but I do have a strange craving for bacon...

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#403 - 2011-09-13 22:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Trolls Troll
Two step wrote:
, and aren't actually listening to what I am saying. You might try giving that a shot.



LIKE WHEN WE LISTENED TO ZULU AND MITTENS 3 MONTHS AGO IN THE VIDEOS SAYING HOW EVERYTHING WAS OK????????????



WHAT YOU DO CSM, NOT WHAT YOU SAY


UNLESS OF COURSE THE 4TH ALTERNATE CSM KNOWS MORE THAN THE SENIOR PRODUCER OF EVE AND CHAIRMAN OF CSM?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#404 - 2011-09-13 22:21:17 UTC
Two step wrote:
We have started that process, perhaps you might consider waiting for the results before you decide if we failed.


And who knows, if he really wanted all that stuff to happen, he might even consider supporting the CSM rather than actively undermining it as vigorously as he could.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#405 - 2011-09-13 22:22:16 UTC
Two step wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Two step wrote:

There isn't some mythical 3rd choice here that we are not choosing to spite you.


Mittens hypnotised you into not disclosing the mythical 3rd choice just admit it


Hmm, I don't remember anything, but I do have a strange craving for bacon...


*handwave*

These are not the -droids- proposals you're looking for!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2011-09-13 22:26:25 UTC
Two step wrote:
[quote=Azelor Delaria]

It seems clear to me at least that you have your own crazy conspiracy theories to uphold here, and aren't actually listening to what I am saying. You might try giving that a shot.



Dont accuse me of tinfoil hattery!

It is not a crazy conspiracy to state that the july meeting achieved absolutly nothing. No change in mindset or direction from CCP. It was an abject failure.

It is certainly not a crazy conspircacy to suggest you are being used as a fire break or shall I put it to you in CCP speak to "manage players expectations"

Rather than getting uber defensive why dont you simply listen to us the people whose concerns are driving this in the first place.

You seem to be palpably incapable of understanding a lot of what has been said in this thread. The process was proven fundementally flawed in july and the debacle surrounding the minutes. All you are giving the community is more of the same flawed process.

the only thing CCP listen to is action. Whether that action is to blog in teh gaming press and post here or whether it is to unsubscribe. CSM at least had that strategy right it seems CCP had their strategy right in how to stop you. Rinse and repeat.
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#407 - 2011-09-13 22:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Trolls Troll
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Two step wrote:
[quote=Azelor Delaria]

It seems clear to me at least that you have your own crazy conspiracy theories to uphold here, and aren't actually listening to what I am saying. You might try giving that a shot.



Dont accuse me of tinfoil hattery!

It is not a crazy conspiracy to state that the july meeting achieved absolutly nothing. No change in mindset or direction from CCP. It was an abject failure.

It is certainly not a crazy conspircacy to suggest you are being used as a fire break or shall I put it to you in CCP speak to "manage players expectations"

Rather than getting uber defensive why dont you simply listen to us the people whose concerns are driving this in the first place.

You seem to be palpably incapable of understanding a lot of what has been said in this thread. The process was proven fundementally flawed in july and the debacle surrounding the minutes. All you are giving the community is more of the same flawed process.

the only thing CCP listen to is action. Whether that action is to blog in teh gaming press and post here or whether it is to unsubscribe. CSM at least had that strategy right it seems CCP had their strategy right in how to stop you. Rinse and repeat.



Yeah I like how it was "only a goonswarm internal mail from mittens" TO

Mittens > "I didn't do anything all these gaming sites managed to find my Kugu post TO

CSM > "We started a campaign against CCP by going to the media sites, and look how effective it was, now CCP wanna talk"


Roll
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2011-09-13 22:32:16 UTC
Two step wrote:
[quote=Temulkar Blaine]
Wow, you sure do have a neat way of showing your apathy. I mean, shouldn't posting here be far too much effort for the truly apathetic?

.


Ah your not actually grasping the meaning of that sentence are you. I am apathetic toewards a process of dialogue with CCP that has proven to be completly ineffective in the past. I am disillusioned by the complete lack of change in direction that has been effected by these "meetings"

That does not mean I dont care about the game or want to see it survive nor am I apathetic about that. simple enough for you?
BoneEater
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#409 - 2011-09-13 22:47:22 UTC
Dont post often, but read alot. Thanks for the update, even if CCP tied your hands on what you could say. See if you can get to allow you to release at least a list of subjects discused, even if only in hypotheical unrelaistic ways. That way with that simple no details list you can give the whiners on this forum some "details" and still keep anything that CCP will do in the future as unknown as it is now. Only revealing really that something was mentioned on the topic.

I understand that this is out of your hands, but really just direct a few of their devs this way to read how much ppl want some details and they should at least allow a partial list then. If not I dont think they have "Got" that communications error fixed from the summer Cool
Revalyn
North Atlantic Holdings
#410 - 2011-09-13 22:55:47 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Hello Everyone,


......................During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6


The NDA says it all really. The CSM delivered what we expected from the meeting, nothing, and as for staying tuned- the TV picture is all fuzzy so we switch to another channel.
Tengillar Scott
Tengillar Scott Corp
#411 - 2011-09-13 23:07:08 UTC
What makes me sad, is all the time CCP is putting in to Dust.
If they where going to released it on the PC as well as consoles, then it might do rather well.
But they are putting it on console only, up against COD and BF.

Thay need to focus on what made them big and that is EVE.
Pulling people from EVE and putting them on Dust, could have the effect of not only Dust failing but players leaving EVE.
If they do not get that soon, i guess we can expect EVE to go "free to play" in a year.

Im really disappointed in the vision CCP have given us.
Most of all im bitter about Dust not getting a PC release for some idiotic reason.

Well don´t mind me... ill go mine a roid and make me a micro warp drive.
Ye that will cheer me up.
Alz Shado
EverFlow
#412 - 2011-09-13 23:26:58 UTC
I, for one, can't wait to play Planetside!

What, that's not the Sony 3D FPS MMORPG with a persistent worldstate that talks to eve?

Oh, well.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#413 - 2011-09-14 02:50:17 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Two step wrote:
[quote=Azelor Delaria]

It seems clear to me at least that you have your own crazy conspiracy theories to uphold here, and aren't actually listening to what I am saying. You might try giving that a shot.



Dont accuse me of tinfoil hattery!

It is not a crazy conspiracy to state that the july meeting achieved absolutly nothing. No change in mindset or direction from CCP. It was an abject failure.

It is certainly not a crazy conspircacy to suggest you are being used as a fire break or shall I put it to you in CCP speak to "manage players expectations"

Rather than getting uber defensive why dont you simply listen to us the people whose concerns are driving this in the first place.

You seem to be palpably incapable of understanding a lot of what has been said in this thread. The process was proven fundementally flawed in july and the debacle surrounding the minutes. All you are giving the community is more of the same flawed process.

the only thing CCP listen to is action. Whether that action is to blog in teh gaming press and post here or whether it is to unsubscribe. CSM at least had that strategy right it seems CCP had their strategy right in how to stop you. Rinse and repeat.


This many pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter rather succinctly.

I was on your side in July, if you remember. I was one of the somewhat vocal members of the community saying, "Go get 'em, CSM!". I put my hopes for this game squarely on your shoulders, because you asked me to. It wasn't blind faith at the time, because everything you all said, I supported.

Once late July hit and there wasn't anything significant to show a change in CCP's direction and thinking, I began to realize that maybe the CSM didn't do the job they had agreed to do. I understand that compromise must be done in order to maintain cordial relations with both groups. However, you capitulating on pretty much everything was significant in determining that maybe it was a poor choice on our part.

As I said - and the quoted post says - you need to show us that you are achieving results, because at the moment, CCP is not showing that. And just because someone is holding your feet to the fire doesn't mean that they don't support you. If you get results, I support you. If you don't, then you are useless. It's that simple.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#414 - 2011-09-14 02:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
Two step wrote:
As we all have said several times, that is *NOT* an option. We signed an agreement with CCP, we cannot make the details public without their permission. Your two options are:
1) We say nothing
2) We say what we did

There isn't some mythical 3rd choice here that we are not choosing to spite you.

As one of the earlier ones to take the CSM to task on this subject, I'll give you my answer: 1. Say nothing. This is a corollary to the old saw about "if you can't say something nice about someone, say nothing at all." In this case it's more "if you can't say something substantive to the playerbase, say nothing at all."

"Why?" (or rather "Why not?")
Because it only causes the playerbase to get all spun up, and only supports your (the CSM's) appearance of self-serving "we're so important".

Conclusion: nothing good comes of it, so STFU until you have something of substance.

Edit: "STFU" may have the desirable effect of causing the CSM to push CCP for more open communication. Reasoning: CSM's all want to be able to talk and say "we did ____". If they can't say anything when they can't be substantive, then they'll push CCP to let more substance be communicated.

MDD
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#415 - 2011-09-14 03:01:04 UTC
Two step wrote:
This is a process, not something that can be solved in a single meeting. We have started that process, perhaps you might consider waiting for the results before you decide if we failed.

Waiting months after the emergency summit to "start the process" is a failure itself. What message should the playerbase take from CCP's apparent inaction during the intervening 3 months?

MDD
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#416 - 2011-09-14 03:34:07 UTC
London wrote:
Crexa wrote:
London wrote:
Dudes, this is what's happening for FiS this winter: MMORPG.com interview

It sounds like a really impressive laundry list of features and balances, everything this bitter Eve player could hope for. :P



You can't be serious. Yes I agree that what is mentioned in this article is good news, but an expansion it does not make.

Where is the meat? I see a lot of salad and gravy but no meat. 3 new CQs is something, but not meat, weve seen one, are you seriously going to be impressed longer than 2 minutes with each of the new ones? And an "establishment"? really? How about an open station to walk around in? The ability to interact with others? Huge view of space from inside the station like some of the dramatic images weve seen.

How about new regions? New ships? New modules? How about bringing back minefields to counter Supers, or new weapon systems for dreads to counter them? How about access finally to Jove space, they have been fricken building up to that forever.

So all I say is where is the MEAT?


I'm paying more attention to this part, why are you so focused on CQ?

"One of the main goals of the expansion is to enhance the smaller skirmishes in EVE, and make them a larger part of the game as opposed to the epic and massive wars the game has become known for. The team wants to incentivize skirmishes and give a role to the other lesser-used ships and give smaller groups of players more ways to feel important in the game. The first step will be to look at the game’s current caps, and they’re definitely going to be buffing Dreads, while nerfing the Super Carriers a bit. They’re going to also take long hard looks at frigates, cruisers, and other smaller ships to give them a more effective role in the overall scheme of things."

I long for ship and weapon balance, not CQ...



I wasn't intentionally fixiating on the CQ's as I don't really care about those. What I'm looking for is EXPANSION! What your looking forward to is fantastic, don't get me wrong I want that too. But it is tinkering or tweaking. Something that belongs in a patch not a supposed "expansion".

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#417 - 2011-09-14 04:10:03 UTC
Crexa wrote:
London wrote:
Crexa wrote:
London wrote:
Dudes, this is what's happening for FiS this winter: MMORPG.com interview

It sounds like a really impressive laundry list of features and balances, everything this bitter Eve player could hope for. :P



You can't be serious. Yes I agree that what is mentioned in this article is good news, but an expansion it does not make.

Where is the meat? I see a lot of salad and gravy but no meat. 3 new CQs is something, but not meat, weve seen one, are you seriously going to be impressed longer than 2 minutes with each of the new ones? And an "establishment"? really? How about an open station to walk around in? The ability to interact with others? Huge view of space from inside the station like some of the dramatic images weve seen.

How about new regions? New ships? New modules? How about bringing back minefields to counter Supers, or new weapon systems for dreads to counter them? How about access finally to Jove space, they have been fricken building up to that forever.

So all I say is where is the MEAT?


I'm paying more attention to this part, why are you so focused on CQ?

"One of the main goals of the expansion is to enhance the smaller skirmishes in EVE, and make them a larger part of the game as opposed to the epic and massive wars the game has become known for. The team wants to incentivize skirmishes and give a role to the other lesser-used ships and give smaller groups of players more ways to feel important in the game. The first step will be to look at the game’s current caps, and they’re definitely going to be buffing Dreads, while nerfing the Super Carriers a bit. They’re going to also take long hard looks at frigates, cruisers, and other smaller ships to give them a more effective role in the overall scheme of things."

I long for ship and weapon balance, not CQ...



I wasn't intentionally fixiating on the CQ's as I don't really care about those. What I'm looking for is EXPANSION! What your looking forward to is fantastic, don't get me wrong I want that too. But it is tinkering or tweaking. Something that belongs in a patch not a supposed "expansion".

The focus on EXPANSION is what has caused all the craptastic features, and half finished things to do. Your going for an ideal, when what most mmos gamers expect as basic support for the game isn't even being provided.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#418 - 2011-09-14 07:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaako Horizon
Two step wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Then your completly missing the point arent you. This is not hostility its apathy and disillusion towards a process of blah blah that most people have absolutly no faith in. July achieved absolutly nothing. Comments like this CSM is going to achieve more than previous ones at this moment in time are as delusional as any $1000 dollar jeans comment.


Wow, you sure do have a neat way of showing your apathy. I mean, shouldn't posting here be far too much effort for the truly apathetic?

Temulkar Blaine wrote:

If the CSM were doing such a great job at representing players disatisfaction and CCP were listening then sub numbers and players online wouldnt be dropping faster than a hookers panties.


Bolded the important part for you. FFS, we took time off work and all got on planes with 5 days notice to represent you.

Temulkar Blaine wrote:

Personally CSM would have been better served carrying on with this press campaign and keeping the pressure up rather than entering yet more meaningless dialogue! CSM only called you in to stop that campaign, who do you think is laughing into their rotten shark?

come back to the community with roadmaps, devblogs, dates, somthing tangible and youll get a better response.


All that stuff is the role of CCP, not the CSM. We have clearly articulated what our objective here is, which is to get CCP to devote more resources to FiS (a.k.a. EVE Online), and less to Incarna/WoD/DUST. This is a process, not something that can be solved in a single meeting. We have started that process, perhaps you might consider waiting for the results before you decide if we failed.



"Bolded the important part for you. FFS, we took time off work and all got on planes with 5 days notice to represent you." ??

BS!! you did not and have not been representing us in any way, shape or form.
You wont ever represet the player base until you get atleast 50% of the players to vote.
What you have done is represent yourselves and a small minority ( the few that voted and even then its less then that )
+ We havent seen you done anything but talk yet... ( and 50% of the talks we arent even allowed to see :P )
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#419 - 2011-09-14 07:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Did you vote?


And what else should the CSM do but talk to CCP? Do you think that they should sneak in to the building and code in some features in a daring midnight operation? What timescales are you expecting the CSM to work and elicit results on?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#420 - 2011-09-14 07:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: DeBingJos
Malcanis wrote:
Did you vote?


And what else should the CSM do but talk to CCP? Do you think that they should sneak in to the building and code in some features in a daring midnight operation? What timescales are you expecting the CSM to work and elicit results on?


^^ this

People that don't vote have no right to complain. Period.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.