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CSM meets CCP Senior Producer Zulu about your concerns

First post First post
Author
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#361 - 2011-09-13 11:24:43 UTC
Officer Spawn wrote:
Two step wrote:
the dramiel/logi fixes


That's like three database updates. Is this seriously something we have to compliment Hilmar on as an example of his commitment to allocating resources to FiS ?


Um, I was saying that stuff like that is non-Hilmar stuff. Getting more resources on FiS is Hilmar level, but there are plenty of things in game that need to be fixed that are easy, as you point out.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#362 - 2011-09-13 11:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel
Azelor Delaria wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
The CSM is only as good as its capacity to engage the devs in dialog and give them feedback. Each CSM has added more communication abilities on top of what its predecessor already had, it should therefore come as no surprise that each CSM is able to accomplish more.


I disagree. By the admission of many on the current CSM as well as CCP employees, the abilities of the CSM are directly related to how Hilmer et al. respond. You can get every developer in CCP to agree with you, but if they don't have the resources that Hilmar controls and allocates, then it is all for naught.

If you want anything done, you need to get Hilmar's approval. In the end, he is the only person who matters. Developers, as I have said, can swear up and down that they agree, and they will get it done, but if Hilmar refuses to give them the components needed to effectively do their job, then it's your own fault for not engaging your brain and thinking beyond the small box that every member of the current CSM is standing in.


It depends...

The CSM performs more than one function, or should...

The ability to influence what is being worked on. Let's say we think lowsec deserves some love. Part of our job as stakeholders is to influence CCP to include lowsec related changes in their release plan for an expansion. This part is in progress but already functions. Maybe not to the extent we'd like, but generally I'd say this works. I'd also agree that we shouldn't have the ability to dictate fully what is being worked on, for even though we try to be mindful of things we care less about, it's important to leave CCP some ability to come up with their own things and/or surprise us (incursions are an example of this).

The ability to influence how the things being worked on get implemented or changed. This function we already perform quite well. Devs come to us for feedback on things that are "ours" or not, or we give them preemptive feedback. I'd say we've had a say in the implementation details of the vast majority of things that have been modified these past years. Some we didn't get to give feedback on because they're trivial and that's fine, some we didn't get to give feedback on because we didn't even know they were being worked on. This latter one is being resolved this CSM I think, we're making progress on getting visibility on what people are working on. Overall this function is good.

The ability to influence how much the things being worked on get worked on. ie, resource allocation. This one fails very much so far. It's a question of politics here. If, for instance, someone wants 50% of the people in reykavik working on InCarna and 25% on the Eve/Dust link, that leaves only 25% of reykavik working on stuff we care about (flying in space, making stuff and blowing stuff up). So while we may get the details right for that 1/4th, the fact that it's only 1/4th is what we're very concerned about and what CSM 5 tried (and failed) to alter. This bit heavily depends on "the powers that be" and this is what we're working on solving right now. We tried before by using substantiated reasonable (imo) arguments but that failed. We'll see how successful CSM 6 is in that regard.

As far as your assumption that Hilmar is the one that matters, that is very partially true. Senior Producer, Executive Producer, Creative Director, Technical Director, CEO, etc. all play a significant part in deciding that kind of thing. Hilmar is a very important part of the puzzle, but not the only one. The good thing is that, in my experience, the man is not an idiot. The only question is how accurate is the information he bases his decisions on.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

weat bix
Xa'sar
Evictus.
#363 - 2011-09-13 12:04:29 UTC
NDA is a great way of saying that the csm spoke about improving there own ideas while ignoring everyone else. lets change null sec to what will best suit csm members and they can always hide what was spoken about by using the nda. harsh I know but i for one have no faith in the csm looking after anyone but them self.
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2011-09-13 12:04:46 UTC
Sorry for the scepticism but, you had a summit in july where a lot of assurances were given by both CCP and CSM with regards communication, the return of functionality, a wider range of nex pricing and a commitment to do better.

The "minutes" of that emergency meeting are only released after months of wrangling and prove to be a most banal and uninformative press release rather than a detailed account of a meeting.

There has been no return of previous functionality, I still cant spin my ship, I still cant save more than 50 fits.

Nex pricing remains unchanged.

Yet from the triumphalist backslapping on this thread you would swear the CSM had actually achieved somthing tangible since July. Their own blogs prove that is not the case.

CSM is being used as a firebreak between CCP and its customers,

How the CSM or CCP can claim to be achieving anything when we are witnessing the largest decline in subsciptions and player numbers in eve memory?

"Pretty words" mean nothing, you achieved nothing in july so why should I accept your going to achieve anything with more meetings more blah blah blah?
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#365 - 2011-09-13 12:14:40 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Sorry for the scepticism but, you had a summit in july where a lot of assurances were given by both CCP and CSM with regards communication, the return of functionality, a wider range of nex pricing and a commitment to do better.

The "minutes" of that emergency meeting are only released after months of wrangling and prove to be a most banal and uninformative press release rather than a detailed account of a meeting.

There has been no return of previous functionality, I still cant spin my ship, I still cant save more than 50 fits.

Nex pricing remains unchanged.

Yet from the triumphalist backslapping on this thread you would swear the CSM had actually achieved somthing tangible since July. Their own blogs prove that is not the case.

CSM is being used as a firebreak between CCP and its customers,

How the CSM or CCP can claim to be achieving anything when we are witnessing the largest decline in subsciptions and player numbers in eve memory?

"Pretty words" mean nothing, you achieved nothing in july so why should I accept your going to achieve anything with more meetings more blah blah blah?


Communication is happening (am I not reporting on a meeting with CCP Zulu?)
Return of functionality, I don't know what you're talking about, that wasn't part of the july meeting.

Wider range of NeX price. I'm with you there, it's totally stupid of them, and I won't stop saying it until they introduce sensible pricing scheme. Until then they can stick their NeX someplace dark and smelly.

The fact that the minutes are banal to you is a victory to us. The minutes are read by more than the jaded/sarcastic folks who frequent the forum, and what seems mundane to you may not seem so to people who don't spend time here. Not having had those meetings minute turned into marketing speech full of grandiose statements about awesomeness and fearlessness is a victory, whatever you may think.

Ship spinning was agreed to return by CCP, yet if you read the minutes, it didn't say that it'd be returning *NOW*. Until then you're not forced into CQ.

Saving more than 50 ships was not part of the agenda.

The CSM can claim to achieve things because it does, and what we do is not limited to the july meeting, look back a bit more (and look ahead too). The reason the july meeting happened is because of several things, one of which being CCP not having listened to us. Their realizing that is a victory too, for it is a requirement to them realizing they should do so in the future.

Pretty words mean nothing? Wait for the outcome and then judge.

And you should accept what we say because we've reporting things that were true all of the time for the past 3 years. That's why.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

Q Ded
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2011-09-13 12:22:56 UTC
LOL at the NDA.
Physical Peak
Perkone
Caldari State
#367 - 2011-09-13 12:33:20 UTC
I'm at a loss if by 'ship spinning' the CSM actually thinks we're purely on about ship spinning. By 'ship spinning' we meant the hangar facility where functionality has been lost by its replacement for the 'door' or CQ.

So Meissa Anunthiel, I hope you can clarify exactly what the CSM and CCP mean by 'ship spinning'.
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#368 - 2011-09-13 12:41:19 UTC
Physical Peak wrote:
I'm at a loss if by 'ship spinning' the CSM actually thinks we're purely on about ship spinning. By 'ship spinning' we meant the hangar facility where functionality has been lost by its replacement for the 'door' or CQ.

So Meissa Anunthiel, I hope you can clarify exactly what the CSM and CCP mean by 'ship spinning'.


There's several "sides" to ship spinning:

- Drag & drop to activate ship
- clicking on your ship to open cargo and whatnot
- actual ship spinning
- not loading the resource hog that is CQ
(I may forget a couple)

All legitimate requests. Right now you have the bad door, but at least you don't get the resource hog. The rest should come back.
The "old" ship spinning will not come back as it was (old rendering code and other constraints), but we'll get something equivalent. No time commitment has been provided.

My personal stance has been "I don't want you to get rid of the door until I get a suitable replacement to the old hangar", suitable being something that covers most of the previous performance, functionality and looks, in that order.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2011-09-13 13:35:02 UTC
By functionality I was refferring to the old functionality of the hanger as has been pointed out by others. I do not expect it "NOW" I do however expect some indication of when! Its three months since that summit meissa so its hardly now is it.

Communication between CCP and the players has not improved. I have no complaints about CSM communication all of you including mittens post or blog regularly.

This new meeting is not a success it is an admission that the July meeting wasa failure. If you had been successful in July there would be no need for more emergency meetings to discuss player concerns.

Since the purchase of more fits was talked about in the Fearless article amongst other services that would be for sale for aur and I know you were personally emailed regarding it before the summit in july; Im very dissapointed that you those services was not part of the agenda.

Im not a bittervet or a forum warrior, I would have prefferred to spend a morning off work getting blown up in delve rather than on the forums.

Pretty words do mean nothing I have choked on a surfeit of pretty words recently, It is time for some red meat
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#370 - 2011-09-13 14:10:48 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
By functionality I was refferring to the old functionality of the hanger as has been pointed out by others. I do not expect it "NOW" I do however expect some indication of when! Its three months since that summit meissa so its hardly now is it.

Communication between CCP and the players has not improved. I have no complaints about CSM communication all of you including mittens post or blog regularly.

This new meeting is not a success it is an admission that the July meeting wasa failure. If you had been successful in July there would be no need for more emergency meetings to discuss player concerns.

Since the purchase of more fits was talked about in the Fearless article amongst other services that would be for sale for aur and I know you were personally emailed regarding it before the summit in july; Im very dissapointed that you those services was not part of the agenda.

Im not a bittervet or a forum warrior, I would have prefferred to spend a morning off work getting blown up in delve rather than on the forums.

Pretty words do mean nothing I have choked on a surfeit of pretty words recently, It is time for some red meat


Anything of substance other than fixes gets released every 6 months.

This has to do with the understaffed and overworked QA department having lots of work to do everytime something like this gets changed, which kinda paralyzes the company for 3-4 days everytime this happens due to branches being merged, builds being made to be tested accross multiple platforms, packages being built, regression tests being tasked to outsourcing companies, etc. So they bundle those significant changes together rather than getting them out one piece at a time. So the soonest you may expect it is the winter expansion.

That fearless article was not released to the public, and the extra fits was talked about in fearless by soundwave as an example of things they COULD do, not something they would do or even should do. And that's something we adressed during the summit (my stance being "either it makes sense to have more and the servers can handle it and you _give_ us more, or it doesn't and you don't, but you don't make me pay for core services").

I however agree it's time for some red meat as you put it, but even if we obtain you that red meat, you won't get it before december for the most part. However we'll be able to ascertain the existence of that meat.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

Razin
The Scope
#371 - 2011-09-13 14:19:47 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Physical Peak wrote:
I'm at a loss if by 'ship spinning' the CSM actually thinks we're purely on about ship spinning. By 'ship spinning' we meant the hangar facility where functionality has been lost by its replacement for the 'door' or CQ.

So Meissa Anunthiel, I hope you can clarify exactly what the CSM and CCP mean by 'ship spinning'.


There's several "sides" to ship spinning:

- Drag & drop to activate ship
- clicking on your ship to open cargo and whatnot
- actual ship spinning
- not loading the resource hog that is CQ
(I may forget a couple)

All legitimate requests. Right now you have the bad door, but at least you don't get the resource hog. The rest should come back.
The "old" ship spinning will not come back as it was (old rendering code and other constraints), but we'll get something equivalent. No time commitment has been provided.

My personal stance has been "I don't want you to get rid of the door until I get a suitable replacement to the old hangar", suitable being something that covers most of the previous performance, functionality and looks, in that order.

Please don't forget that for many of the players the hanger also means "not getting out of your ship at every dock". This is a very important immersion issue. This is not only for the RP-ers, this is for everyone who treats this game as an escapist entertainment and needs some in-game world consistency that makes at least a bit of sense.
Physical Peak
Perkone
Caldari State
#372 - 2011-09-13 14:21:38 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Physical Peak wrote:
I'm at a loss if by 'ship spinning' the CSM actually thinks we're purely on about ship spinning. By 'ship spinning' we meant the hangar facility where functionality has been lost by its replacement for the 'door' or CQ.

So Meissa Anunthiel, I hope you can clarify exactly what the CSM and CCP mean by 'ship spinning'.


There's several "sides" to ship spinning:

- Drag & drop to activate ship
- clicking on your ship to open cargo and whatnot
- actual ship spinning
- not loading the resource hog that is CQ
(I may forget a couple)

All legitimate requests. Right now you have the bad door, but at least you don't get the resource hog. The rest should come back.
The "old" ship spinning will not come back as it was (old rendering code and other constraints), but we'll get something equivalent. No time commitment has been provided.

My personal stance has been "I don't want you to get rid of the door until I get a suitable replacement to the old hangar", suitable being something that covers most of the previous performance, functionality and looks, in that order.


Glad to hear it. I honestly hope that CCP see it the same way.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#373 - 2011-09-13 14:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:


Pretty words mean nothing? Wait for the outcome and then judge.

And you should accept what we say because we've reporting things that were true all of the time for the past 3 years. That's why.



All well and good, but how long should we wait? 18 Months, 6 Months, 3 Months? In the meantime we are still paying actual money to CCP while the only thing we get is vague promises and assurances even after the "rage".

I won't pay my baker for bread he might make next week today. I won't buy milk from a cow that has not been born yet. I am not paying CCP any more for a game that might improve someday.

I am sorry but I will only pay for red meat that's politly presented on a plate with some sauce and french fries and only then after I have eaten it.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#374 - 2011-09-13 14:50:08 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Sorry for the scepticism but, you had a summit in july where a lot of assurances were given by both CCP and CSM with regards communication, the return of functionality, a wider range of nex pricing and a commitment to do better.


I think we can all agree that went nowhere near far enough and we can see that now with the continuing unsub wave and discontent.

Quote:
The "minutes" of that emergency meeting are only released after months of wrangling and prove to be a most banal and uninformative press release rather than a detailed account of a meeting.


Yep, the minutes were terrible and it literally enraged me to hear the NeX strategy defended in the terms it was alongside praise of the Incarna CQ rollout. But the CSM have assured us that much of the shouting and hard words didn't really come across. Fair enough, lets hope they do this time.

Quote:
There has been no return of previous functionality, I still cant spin my ship, I still cant save more than 50 fits.


I think the downgrading of the "emergency" to "special" summit category shows that CCP felt they could get away with doing nothing but some placating words and a funky video and maybe they'd gull the user base to resubbing and playing happily. This hasn't happened. Hence we're steaming towards the Winter of Discontent in New Eden.

Quote:
Nex pricing remains unchanged.


To be quite blunt I'm unhappy that NeX still exists period. I think its hands down the worst thing that CCP has ever done to Eve and is the mutant child of 18 months of neglect.

Quote:
Yet from the triumphalist backslapping on this thread you would swear the CSM had actually achieved somthing tangible since July. Their own blogs prove that is not the case. CSM is being used as a firebreak between CCP and its customers, How the CSM or CCP can claim to be achieving anything when we are witnessing the largest decline in subsciptions and player numbers in eve memory?


Lets be realistic. At this point CSM has achieved nothing. Just like the player protests have currently achieved nothing. We are heading towards a decisive confrontation with an out of touch CCP management over resources for the core Eve experience. Until that fight begins and is won then nothing can be achieved really. This game is steering fearlessly towards an Iceburg and unless Hillmar can be convinced to alter course and fund the core game again in a serious fashion then any amount of re-arranging the deckchairs and furniture choices in a lounge is precisely irrelevant.

I think the CSM knows this and I think we know it.

But we should now be unified as comrades on the barricades preparing for the only fight that matters. Divisions and spite between CSM and players of all sides is now pointless.

We either get radically increased resources for Core Eve gameplay and a return to proper full content feature-rich expansions and genuine iteration on abandoned content or this game is going to sink with all hands.

The good people on the CSM are getting ready to fight. We need to get ready to fight too. There isn't going to be any prize for second place in this battle over resource priority.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#375 - 2011-09-13 15:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Azelor Delaria
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Communication is happening (am I not reporting on a meeting with CCP Zulu?)
Return of functionality, I don't know what you're talking about, that wasn't part of the july meeting.


Yes, you mentioned a meeting with CCP Zulu. However, you neglect to mention what was talked about, citing the now-infamous NDA. I agree with a previous poster: all this appears to be is you guys attempting to score brownie point while not coming clean with what was said. And of course, we can expect you all to stick to your guns, continuing to cite the NDA.

It's quite interesting that at the end of the "emergency meeting", you guys could say exactly what you talked about. However, with this meeting, you can't say anything, because of the NDA? Seems like a small double standard so you guys don't have to say anything.

Protip: If you want to score brownie points, then say something useful. Otherwise, shut the hell up, because no one cares about vague posts. No one cares that you were on the CSM for upteen terms. In fact, I think you need to be removed the most because of how clearly incompetent you are.

Quote:
Wider range of NeX price. I'm with you there, it's totally stupid of them, and I won't stop saying it until they introduce sensible pricing scheme. Until then they can stick their NeX someplace dark and smelly.


No, they need to remove the NeX until they actually do something for the game other than turn it into Barbie Playhouse.

Quote:
The fact that the minutes are banal to you is a victory to us. The minutes are read by more than the jaded/sarcastic folks who frequent the forum, and what seems mundane to you may not seem so to people who don't spend time here. Not having had those meetings minute turned into marketing speech full of grandiose statements about awesomeness and fearlessness is a victory, whatever you may think.


The minutes don't matter, because as far as everyone is concerned, they are useless. A public transcript is what was expected, as has come before. As far as anyone is concerned, CCP could have redacted everything, put their words in your mouth., and told you to play along. Because once again, that NDA comes into play. "What the hell? That's not what we said!" BAMCIS! CCP claims you violated the NDA, you're gone.

In short, you're useless.

Quote:
Ship spinning was agreed to return by CCP, yet if you read the minutes, it didn't say that it'd be returning *NOW*. Until then you're not forced into CQ.


Not the ship spinning we all love. In fact, they promised something similar, not ship spinning, per se.

Quote:
Saving more than 50 ships was not part of the agenda.


So you can tell us what wasn't on the agenda, but not what was? Isn't this a violation of the NDA?
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#376 - 2011-09-13 15:36:52 UTC
Quote:
The CSM can claim to achieve things because it does, and what we do is not limited to the july meeting, look back a bit more (and look ahead too). The reason the july meeting happened is because of several things, one of which being CCP not having listened to us. Their realizing that is a victory too, for it is a requirement to them realizing they should do so in the future.


Oh, so you're saying the CSM gets to take credit when in reality, it was the far more than you morons who have done nothing? You piggybacked off the hard work of Helicity, Spank, and others, including myself. You claim you did something "historic" and that you have helped make the game better.

Where's the proof?

The July meeting would have happened even if you didn't chime in, because we - the players - said we had enough. Not CSM. You may be players as well, but you are a very small portion of the community. Never, ever forget that.

Quote:
Pretty words mean nothing? Wait for the outcome and then judge.


Pretty words that make vague posts don't matter. Actions speak louder than words. And as far as I'm concerned, anything that happens at this point is because the playerbase has spoken, not the CSM.

Quote:
And you should accept what we say because we've reporting things that were true all of the time for the past 3 years. That's why.


No, we shouldn't. When your defense is, "We're CSM, listen to what we say", there is no reason for us to listen.

In closing, the CSM - or rather, what the CSM should have been - is a noble idea. However, they seem to pick sheep that are easy to cow into doing what they want. As far as I'm concerned - and many others are as well, if we are to take posts in this thread for what they appear to be - you all are nothing but unpaid spokespeople to keep subscriptions.
Arrynoss
Doomheim
#377 - 2011-09-13 15:39:03 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
[quote=Temulkar Blaine]

Wall of Text....


Pretty much have to agree with every word said here.

I have been very defensive and have used CCP as the case study when nearly every other MMO company outside of Blizzard has got the development of their mmo's drastically wrong. This has led to catastrophic declines in subscribers and in the worst cases, the game shutting the doors.

I have found the content since Apocrypha to be rapidly falling into the category that tars so many other MMO's. Sadly, I cannot say that any of those that have chosen to ignore or sidestep their community and source of income are still maintaining a top shelf mmo.

Not last week I watched the video where Torfi first gave us the information on Tech III at Fanfest. It reminded me of how much the Apocrypha patch excited me. The room filled with loyal Eve players whooping, clapping and generally being over the moon at where the game was going.

I am a supporter of CCP's development cycle, providing us with the consistent larger updates on the seasonal markers however, I think they owe us this time to be more transparent with what is up and coming. This I trust is what Mittens and the CSM are going to press over the next meetings. Whilst the cloak and dagger development has been really good fun as an excited subscriber in the past; Incarna, Dominion et al have left the community betrayed.

Pending the conclusion of the CSM's meetings with Zulu and the high end CCP management, the community deserves at least in essence, a development plan of how the focus will be rebalanced to significantly increase the FiS output.

If CCP continues to run under NDA which we have been all tolerant and excitable for in the past, it simply provides more of a catalyst that CCP's inherent plans were set in stone to focus far too many resources into developing future games and neglecting the essence of Eve Online, which still remains an uncontested beacon in the Sci Fi MMO industry.

I personally, and I don't think many of us are asking for 100% direct transparency of CCP's 2 year plan here, however a new level and a one-off needs to be made once the CSM and CCP have concluded this spotlight. The community does not deserve to be left in the dark on this one, lest the game's decline could go from a substantial depression into absolute freefall.

I sincerely hope the CSM presses the right buttons and I fully support you in this. It goes to show how much Eve means to us all in more than just a passtime and a game. It's a sign of what we have all created that we all want to fight this hard to keep it.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#378 - 2011-09-13 15:57:45 UTC
Azelor Delaria wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Communication is happening (am I not reporting on a meeting with CCP Zulu?)
Return of functionality, I don't know what you're talking about, that wasn't part of the july meeting.


Yes, you mentioned a meeting with CCP Zulu. However, you neglect to mention what was talked about, citing the now-infamous NDA. I agree with a previous poster: all this appears to be is you guys attempting to score brownie point while not coming clean with what was said. And of course, we can expect you all to stick to your guns, continuing to cite the NDA.

It's quite interesting that at the end of the "emergency meeting", you guys could say exactly what you talked about. However, with this meeting, you can't say anything, because of the NDA? Seems like a small double standard so you guys don't have to say anything.

Protip: If you want to score brownie points, then say something useful. Otherwise, shut the hell up, because no one cares about vague posts. No one cares that you were on the CSM for upteen terms. In fact, I think you need to be removed the most because of how clearly incompetent you are.


You seem to be under the impression that we (the CSM) are the ones decidign what is under NDA and what isn't. That isn't the case. We could tell you what happened after the Emergency Summit because CCP allowed us to. We can't tell you what was said this time because they didn't allow us to say what happened this time.

If you don't want to know that we met with CCP, don't read the thread. Most people would prefer to have as much information as possible, which is what we have done.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#379 - 2011-09-13 16:09:37 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
(my stance being "either it makes sense to have more and the servers can handle it and you _give_ us more, or it doesn't and you don't, but you don't make me pay for core services").

that stance doesn't make any sense...

prices are a rationing mechanism used to determine the allocation of scarce resources (in this case resources on ccp's servers).

There is a lot of room between being able to give everyone - say - 100 server-side fitting slots and being unable to give anyone more than 50 slots.

And for pretty much any possible resource constraint there will be a AUR price that will make sure that demand does not exceed this constraint.

So instead of some people getting more fitting slots you reduce the choices to either everyone or nobody.

Don't really see how this is an improvement - now we end up with the "nobody" option while the "some" won't even get the slots they would be happy to pay for. Less utility for players, less money for CCP and this is better how?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#380 - 2011-09-13 16:11:47 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:


Pretty words mean nothing? Wait for the outcome and then judge.

And you should accept what we say because we've reporting things that were true all of the time for the past 3 years. That's why.



All well and good, but how long should we wait? 18 Months, 6 Months, 3 Months? In the meantime we are still paying actual money to CCP while the only thing we get is vague promises and assurances even after the "rage".

I won't pay my baker for bread he might make next week today. I won't buy milk from a cow that has not been born yet. I am not paying CCP any more for a game that might improve someday.

I am sorry but I will only pay for red meat that's politly presented on a plate with some sauce and french fries and only then after I have eaten it.



I was going to make a post, but Ciar sums up what I was thinking.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori