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Fixing FW
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JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#1 - 2015-03-19 18:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
I think 2 changes can fix FW's broken farming mechanic.

Prevent stabbed ships from entering the plex and running timers, in case they cheat with mobile depots, and/or prevent mobile depots from being used anywhere within the deadspace plex.

Reset the counter to Zero if the militia member warps out when an opposing militia member warps in.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#2 - 2015-03-19 19:06:48 UTC
-1

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#3 - 2015-03-19 19:32:04 UTC
Waaaaahhhh, Waaaaaah!

I can't seem to find the effort to make a serious reply to yet another person complaining that CCP won't make FW plex runners super easy prey for every linked garmur alt out there by preventing them from using stabs or depots.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-03-19 20:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
stabbed ships are not invincible and 19 minutes of effort should not be undone do to a two minute retreat

don't be lazy

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2015-03-19 20:53:34 UTC
For every fight I get in a FW plex there's ten times I see my prey simply warp away. That said, I do not support OP's idea. If someone wants to play Sir Robin from the Monty Python movie, then they should be allowed to.
Arla Sarain
#6 - 2015-03-19 21:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Anhenka wrote:
easy prey for every linked garmur alt

There is practically an eternity to warp out from the time the garmur is spotted on D-SCAN to when the garmur even begins locking you.

And what kind of a scrub does one need to be to fly a garmur on an alt and not a main? Does it require a special "Garmur for Alt Char purposes requisition" form?

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
stabbed ships are not invincible and 19 minutes of effort should not be undone do to a two minute retreat

don't be lazy

Stabbed farmers are allowed to be lazy.
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-03-19 22:04:23 UTC
ccp should also add a 30km warp disruption bubble to every plex and notification in local that someone enteres a site..... joking...
youre really bad if you cant counter stabs/catch enemy...
your enemy is a thinking player, not npc - that requires your thinking also

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-03-19 22:08:03 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
easy prey for every linked garmur alt

There is practically an eternity to warp out from the time the garmur is spotted on D-SCAN to when the garmur even begins locking you.

And what kind of a scrub does one need to be to fly a garmur on an alt and not a main? Does it require a special "Garmur for Alt Char purposes requisition" form?

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
stabbed ships are not invincible and 19 minutes of effort should not be undone do to a two minute retreat

don't be lazy

Stabbed farmers are allowed to be lazy.


It almost reads like you think people won't turn to unfitted frigs if stabs are nerfed for FW farming...
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#9 - 2015-03-19 22:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
Arla Sarain wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
easy prey for every linked garmur alt

There is practically an eternity to warp out from the time the garmur is spotted on D-SCAN to when the garmur even begins locking you.

And what kind of a scrub does one need to be to fly a garmur on an alt and not a main? Does it require a special "Garmur for Alt Char purposes requisition" form?

This and a prepared person can scram a garmur on the warp in. Garmurs are op but are not invincible, they have to enter in the same 2.5km radius from the beacon as everyone else.

Arla Sarain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
stabbed ships are not invincible and 19 minutes of effort should not be undone do to a two minute retreat

don't be lazy

Stabbed farmers are allowed to be lazy.

This. Stabbed farming is laziness, why should your stabbed farmer alt get to farm LP all day and warp out after getting tackled because they were not paying attention. Stabs should have been removed with cloaks. And if you were pvp fit anyway then you fight, and the timer wont reset even if you die.

I dont give a s* about killing these guys, unless they keep farming. I want farmers out of the warzone. FW is for PvP not your easy and risk free LP.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-19 22:54:55 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
easy prey for every linked garmur alt

There is practically an eternity to warp out from the time the garmur is spotted on D-SCAN to when the garmur even begins locking you.

And what kind of a scrub does one need to be to fly a garmur on an alt and not a main? Does it require a special "Garmur for Alt Char purposes requisition" form?

This and a prepared person can scram a garmur on the warp in. Garmurs are op but are not invincible, they have to enter in the same 2.5km radius from the beacon as everyone else.

Arla Sarain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
stabbed ships are not invincible and 19 minutes of effort should not be undone do to a two minute retreat

don't be lazy

Stabbed farmers are allowed to be lazy.

This. Stabbed farming is laziness, why should your stabbed farmer alt get to farm LP all day and warp out after getting tackled because they were not paying attention. Stabs should have been removed with cloaks. And if you were pvp fit anyway then you fight, and the timer wont reset even if you die.

I dont give a s* about killing these guys, unless they keep farming. I want farmers out of the warzone. FW is for PvP not your easy and risk free LP.


And again, what makes you think the farmer won't just used unfitted frigs?

The "problem" with farmers is not that they can escape, it's that FW reward orbitting a button. Even if you lose your ship every other time, if your unfitted frigs cost less than half what you get worth of LP, you still turn up a profit and there is no way in hell you will kill enough farmer to put their ration at more than 1 ship lost per PLEX run. As long as orbittign a button has a reward, you are **** out of luck to stop your farming "problem".
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2015-03-19 23:20:26 UTC
those stabbed farmers are still participating in PvP and that is what FW was made to drive.


BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#12 - 2015-03-19 23:25:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

And again, what makes you think the farmer won't just used unfitted frigs?

unfitted ships will just die, kill enough and no matter how good the reward the irritation of shipping new ones all the time will wear them out.

Frostys Virpio wrote:
The "problem" with farmers is not that they can escape, it's that FW reward orbitting a button. Even if you lose your ship every other time, if your unfitted frigs cost less than half what you get worth of LP, you still turn up a profit and there is no way in hell you will kill enough farmer to put their ration at more than 1 ship lost per PLEX run. As long as orbittign a button has a reward, you are **** out of luck to stop your farming "problem".

I agree with you Frosty, any means of taking away the reward for doing nothing and I am all ears. The reward of the plex should be reset when these farmers run away. Fit for pvp and keep your timer, run away and forfeit your capture and have to start all over. the players like you and I would take care of the rest, i think.

One other thing you could do is decrease the reward for plex capture and increase the reward for killing the opposing militia.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#13 - 2015-03-19 23:27:18 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
those stabbed farmers are still participating in PvP

wut.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-03-19 23:28:44 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
those stabbed farmers are still participating in PvP

wut.


elaborate on your question

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Arla Sarain
#15 - 2015-03-19 23:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
those stabbed farmers are still participating in PvP and that is what FW was made to drive.



I thought you said they were retreating.

Unless sitting in a safe spot counts as PvP...
In which case, mining is some form asymmetric elite PvP - you control ship supply and that in turn, loosely determines what ships people fly. If you mine in a certain way, maybe people will stop flying certain ships!
#tritaniumFoilhat
Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2015-03-19 23:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
those stabbed farmers are still participating in PvP and that is what FW was made to drive.



I thought you said they were retreating.

Unless sitting in a safe spot counts as PvP...
In which case, mining is some form asymmetric elite PvP - you control ship supply and that in turn, loosely determines what ships people fly. If you mine in a certain way, maybe people will stop flying certain ships!
#tritaniumFoilhat



PvP happens anytime players attempt to achieve goals that conflict with one another



the stabbed frig is attempting to make as much LP as he can with out dying you are attempting to kill the stabbed frig this drives a PvP interaction that either ends with you killing him or him getting away to continue plexing


and yes mining ends up being PvP in many ways either through competing for ore in the belt or competing for buyers of that ore

the great part about eve is its pvp isn't limited to just ship x and y are shooting each other

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#17 - 2015-03-20 00:06:13 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:

unfitted ships will just die, kill enough and no matter how good the reward the irritation of shipping new ones all the time will wear them out.


While in principle I want to agree with you, in practice, the answer is no. There are lots of FW farmers that have hilarious killboards of all unfit frigates. On one hand you can laugh at them and their pathetic killboard, on the other hand, they can laugh at you all the way to the bank. With a 50k SP alt, they are making some of the best ISK per click out there. You cost them 2, maybe 3 or 4 clicks. Each site they complete is somewhere between 10 and 20 times the cost of the frigate.




Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-03-20 00:36:11 UTC
At most anyone who comes in couldb use a short suspect timer. Banning certain modules from use is usually a bad idea.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#19 - 2015-03-20 00:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
Vic Jefferson wrote:
JetStream Drenard wrote:

unfitted ships will just die, kill enough and no matter how good the reward the irritation of shipping new ones all the time will wear them out.


While in principle I want to agree with you, in practice, the answer is no. There are lots of FW farmers that have hilarious killboards of all unfit frigates. On one hand you can laugh at them and their pathetic killboard, on the other hand, they can laugh at you all the way to the bank. With a 50k SP alt, they are making some of the best ISK per click out there. You cost them 2, maybe 3 or 4 clicks. Each site they complete is somewhere between 10 and 20 times the cost of the frigate.

This is exactly the behavior that needs to be eliminated. AND it is a zero SP alt. Risk free isk is bad. I have 2 farmer alts, only because they are necessary to "pvp" against all the other farmer alts. Sure I laugh at the easy money, and That is broken. FW is almost entirely decided by the level of farmer alts running timers and not by people actually doing things.

The sad part is, if this null change goes thru you are gonna see the need for very similar things happening in null and that is broken. Instead of LP, they will get tears or some form of SOV.