Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exactly, and most players in this sandbox don't want the blue donut coalition playstyle enforced upon all of nullsec. CCP has also realised that it's bad for the game in the long run, and is making an effort to end the rental rmt era.

Actually, it will become everyone's problem, including CCP's. Unfun and broken mechanics must be exploited.

Actually, I think you have it backwards, at least in terms of Fozziesov.

At the moment, you already have those high walls - the massive EHP grinds, the SBUs, iHubs and TCUs and multiple timers for each - that attackers are forced to chip away at until they crumble because of fatigue. It is exactly these walls that have contributed to the stagnation in nullsec, and it's these mechanics - the walls - that Fozziesov is intended to upend.

In Fozziesov, the whole point is that an attacker DOESN'T have to grind you down to make progress. That ANY attacker, no small or how large, is a credible threat to your sov - if you refuse or are unable to respond. The CCP design goal of enabling any ship and any doctrine to mount an Entosis Link - and therefore allow any ship or doctrine to threaten sov - is precisely to remove artificial barriers like EHP walls.

Which is to say - the whole point of Fozziesov is to make your home suddenly open to attack from every angle... for at least four hours per day.

Mind you, this doesn't prevent you from shaping the field of battle per se. Erecting bubbleinstalock camps at strategic chokepoints forces an attacker to make choices - do they bash their way in by force of arms, do they infiltrate via WHs, or do they blow past the blockade in nigh uncatchable Trollceptors? That choice, in turn, defines the tactical problem the defenders need to solve. A brute force assault lends itself to pitched battles, WH infiltration means contain and burn them out, Trollceptors mean breaking out the pipebombs and Snaked Linked Faction Fitted solo junkies incentivised by bounties posted by your alliance.

So yes - you can erect walls as high and deep as you choose, and they will offer some measure of security. But part of CCP's design goals - which are evident in any clear reading of the blogs and the OP of this thread - are that no matter how big you are, and no matter how high you build those walls, you're not safe. That you are always under threat, and will always be required to respond - or you risk losing what you've conquered and built. Tying RF times to system indexes, allowing a defender to halt an attacker's progress simply by activating their own Link... these things are designed to give a defender time to react - not to remove the burden of responding entirely.

It's a Brave new world, my friend - and I look forward to seeing who is able to adapt and thrive, and who's been resting on a rotten throne.


You seem to forget that it's CCP's sandbox you're playing in, son. They decide the rules of the game, not you. And quite frankly, since CCP is looking at the health of the ENTIRE game, not just catering to the nullbear blocs who whine when anyone threatens their little apple cart, perhaps one might sit back and think about how limiting sov warfare to massive supercap blobs might be killing the game as a whole. You've already alluded to nullbears who spend most of their time alting on FW or incursion alts - what happens when they suddenly have to be active in their "real" homes? How does that impact all the other areas of the game, how does that improve the health of EVE as a whole?

You have no right to demand the sandbox be tailored to your needs.

Finally, Gewns screaming about other people being able to screw with their sov games without commitment or consequence has to be one of the richest damn pieces of irony ever committed to print.

That was a sort-of good feature about Dominion sov, it couldn't be flipped by missing a single day of timers and you had points of conflict which allowed for focused conflict to occur. The problem was with the manpower and firepower required to accomplish this. We can both agree that this barred many smaller alliances entry.

I call it a mixed bag because it does offer some solutions to the problems. Such as making people think for themselves in smaller groups on a node. Decisions matter as to what you go after. But there are options available that can accomplish those same goals but better, even running along side their current plan that allows for all forms of game play to flourish.

Ex:
Why not make structures invulnerable until the RF is over, capturing a single command node removes that invulnerability allowing you to attack them and the more points taken by attacker, lower resistances that structure has. Command nodes can be flipped back and forth constantly until the structure is dead or the vulnerability has worn off. More nodes taken, the less firepower required to destroy the structure. Small gangs now quickly span out and take as many nodes as they can that are undefended to lower the resistances, then push for the ones that are or go straight in towards the structure itself. To prevent trolling from larger alliances yo only allow repping of the structure to occur once it's vulnerability stage is over. Meaning constant hit and run tactics will eventually destroy the structure. While a single blob will not work as you must always have control of at least 1 node to even apply damage.

With that you have your importance of small skirmishes, but at the same time leaves a centralized point of focus for conflict to occur which is what the current null sov likes and what those who do not currently own sov like and would supposedly bring them over to the sov bill paying masses if they could.




Look, I get that you feel everything should be open to attack easily. What you don't seem to get or care about is that, large or small, being expected to protect your borders and your inner sov at the same time every day is a near impossible task and WILL burn people out. Especially with the current value of null to the line members, it quickly becomes not worth the effort even for a small area of space.

Walls must be allowed to be made to slow entry and to keep your people safe (in relation to sudden loss of all assets) who choose not to fight on the front lines 4 hours a day, 7 days a week. If you lived in null then you should know that coming back after a week vacation to find all your stuff is stuck in a station would be bullshit. Taking and losing sov should never ever ever be an over night/1 timer event. Far too much rides on it when this is a game, and such an important event which makes people even consider taking time off work for a game to insure their entertainment isn't a good mechanic.

And before you say it yes, I know stations are effectively 2 timers, but any station that enters free-port (stupidest idea ever put forth) will be forever hell camped until the final timer is done. So yes, your stuff is stuck.

And people say we take the game too seriously.

You kept saying you lived in null. I question how much or how much commitment you ever really put in before you moved to where you are now.

Saying the people of null have such a low level of commitment is such ignorance I'm literally done talking with you. You are so glazed over by your low sec, FW view of null players that it's pointless to try and have a conversation with you.

Just.. I'm done. Don't worry tho, null sec players are the cancer of this game. We have no intention of making this game better for all even tho we are the ones bored out of our minds out here.

EDIT: Don't go pointing fingers about being risk adverse. You'd be hard pressed to find a player anywhere in this game that isnt, difference is we have much more on the line. And we did our fighting long ago, why do you think we have this sov in the first place?!

Most of 2004-2008. Spent a good long while gearing up for the drone expansion, dropped an outpost, ran an alliance for about 6 months. So.. a fair bit, I'd say.


Actually I don't doubt that there are incredibly dedicated Nullsec pilots. Bloc level FCs, the entire Gewn logistics backbone (the GSOL presentations are always epic, props to those guys), etc etc etc. But when the average line member is defined primarily by AFK ratting, alting in FW / incursions, or play DOTA2 while waiting for a rage ping? Yeah - the average null line member has minimal commitment. At the moment, the burdens of securing sov nullsec and making it livable are carried by a small fraction of the nullsec population, so that the average line member never has to deal with any of the hassles outside of stratops. And, given things like the B0TLRD Accords and the like, line members in large sov nullsec coalitions don't even have to worry about THAT outside of lolz.

That's exactly what's causing that level of boredom, stagnation and frustration in nullsec these days - the lack of any driver to be in space, doing things in nullsec. There's no existential threat, taking more space is pointless - and would be a mindnumbing grind for folks who are already on the edge of unsubbing. Where the nullblocs craft peace treaties to make sure the small minority that actually do the work of sov nullsec don't burn the hell out, where they engineer game preserves like Catch and Providence to amuse the masses.

Implement Fozziesov, though... suddenly there's an existential NEED for pilots to be active. In space. For hours, day in and day out. There's TARGETS that can be hit, that can cause real damage and real impact to people living in nullsec - that DON'T require a bloc level FC and dozens of supercaps to take a run at. There's ways for individual line members, acting on their own initiative, to have a real impact on not only the safety and security of their own space, but potentially causing significant chaos and carnage elsewhere on the map.

That's what Fozziesov is intended to do. To give you reasons to be active, to be in space, to be online - to not be playing DOTA or running incursions on your alt while waiting for a ping. To make the line members and residents of nullsec actually start shouldering part of the burden of planting and keeping your flag in nullsec. To spread the load, so that alliances don't live and die by the efforts of a small cadre of clinically insane neckbeards.

That's why I say that FW pilots - at least those in corps who live and fight out of FW warzone stations - have a comparatively higher level of commitment. Because they can't rely on a small cadre of folks to keep all the fires put out while they screw around elsewhere. Because it does take the regular, day in and day out efforts of entire corps and alliances to keep control of the warzone, to fight back the incursions, to earn their place on the map.

That's what I want to see in nullsec - sovholding alliances who are there not because of how many supercaps they own, or how many neckbeards they have hammering away at IT tools, but because the overwhelming majority of their memberbase is out there day in and day out earning the right to be there.

1. I put a whole lot more on the line on a regular basis than you do, sweetie. Or, as was so often the refrain in times of old... Post With Your Main.

2. You're in the largest coalition in the game, who has signed peace agreements with every single entity who could possibly threaten your sov or put you in a position of losing your assets. You and your coalition are the last folks in this game who should be talking about having anything at risk. Your Dear Leader has essentially metagamed all the risk out of the game, for you.

3. I hope beyond hope that Entosis Links get implemented as currently proposed and a plague of Trollceptors descends to lock you out of whatever station you call home. Then, and only then, may you come back on these forums and talk as if you have anything to lose in a sov war.

I don't think you understand, the whole point of Fozziesov is to make sov attacks "commitment free" by design, by lowering the bar for conducting such attacks to essentially zero. So long as you're willing to commit to putting whatever ship you're flying on the line for 2+X or 5+X minutes at a time, you too can harass sov.

So, if your complaint is that it makes attacking sov easy, then... mission accomplished, I guess?

That's the hilarious part.
Let's say we do one day grow tired of dealing with Trollceptors if they aren't prevented somehow. Let's say we just decide to say screw it, drop Deklein, Tenal, Fountain, etc., and go hole up in Syndicate, Venal, randomlowsecwhatever. You now have thousands of bitter, disillusioned refugees, with trillions of ISK to burn, and nothing better to do than roll around all of nullsec in Trollceptors.

Trust me, it's not the CFC who will ultimately suffer under this ridiculous system.
It doesn't do away with n+1. It just makes the numbers game even more skewed in our favor than it already is.
It's okay though. Keep believing that this is a good idea.