Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Its funny that you don;t realize that Goons are part of the problem.

Agreed, but that just brings it back to one massively common complaint with the FW capture mechanic. Plexers can run away far too easily with absolutely no risk/loss. There is no act of commitment to *starting* a plex capture when, at the first sign of trouble, you can just skedaddle on out before anyone even lands on grid. This leads to a sense that there is no real risk involved.

As this is a current complaint in FW, which is intentionally "casual", I can only imagine how much worse it would feel if nullsec sov can be contested with virtually no risk (which is basically what the trollceptor hubaloo revolves around... the idea that a ship can be fit to contest sov and be virtually impossible to catch/kill once a defender shows up).

So yeah, I agree there's no point in making it a module because you will have to place so many restrictions on the module to make troll fits impossible that you might as well just pin the ship in place, set their HP to 1, and pop them while running the module if anyone even looks at them funny. Anything else will be eventually creatively abused to make a trolly fit that is able to commit no real risk to the sov contest attempt and will always be able to somehow survive to the end of a cycle and GTFO. EVE players are creative and I have no doubt they can work around even the most arcane module drawbacks to accomplish this.

Which is why it should be a deployable, with the various mechanics/limitations already discussed. If you run, you give up the deployable KM and some ISK (and possibly even lock yourself out of contesting sov again for a while, depending on how mean the defenders want to be). This means the act of contesting sov STARTS with a baseline comittment/risk. Basically an opening wager that, if you fold (run away), you are losing. Honestly I'd love to see that in FW too but maybe at a much lower price point :)

tl;dr: contesting sov should still require you to ante up. This is what trollceptors (or troll anythings) avoid; they get to fold AND take their money back out of the pot. FW plexes could use this too, though with smaller buy-ins :)

Sounds like a much greater success then fatigue (which was a great success and shook up null)

no the high slot module is a good idea :) let it like this CCP
can't wait to see CCP do the same thing for POS and POCOs

but and here i'am agree CCP need To make having a SOv something really really attractive ( make you earn a ton and when i say a ton a mean a Ton of money etc etc , make things like you can only the door of the station In your station in your system etc etc

I'm not sure what this has to do with that. I know I never said fatigue would shake up null, and I don't recall CCP ever saying so either. I realize some 3rd party observers were hoping for a sea change, and that's fine, but the fact that they were wrong about that doesn't have much to do about discussing this. Fatigue had a singular goal, which it accomplished, which was to reduce the projection of capital force strength across long distance in null. At no point did CCP claim fatigue was going to radically shake up null or sov. At best they hoped it might lead to more use of capitals in small scale fights, particularly in lowsec.

In fact the only thing they said about significant effect on null was "The medium-term shake-out of these changes will be very impactful on sovereignty-system changes we are anticipating making next year". Which, there's no question if this sov system goes live, fatigue + reduced force projection for capitals will definitely be a big input on how the new meta evolves to handle it.

You have a 10 minute cycle time and a 20km range to structure. So, how is an interceptor that's locked to the grid for a significant amount of time just to begin the capture progress going to be a threat? Oh no, the troll burned your gate camp. You have enough time to respond to the structure under attack with a freaking carrier if you want.

Because disabling the warp engines does not automatically equate to being locked to grid in a trollceptor. You can still burn away from the sov structure and the grid, easily outrunning any opponent with your superior speed and agility and after a certain distance, you will have broken off from the grid and will be in your own safe, seperate grid. This will make the trollceptor look like it suddenly disappeared to everybody on the sov structure's grid, even before the completion of the entosis link cycle. Until that cycle completes, trollceptor continues to burn at max speed with MWD on, and then warps away as normal to any point it chooses to.

This practice is also known as grid-fu or grid manipulation.

By following the above, trollceptor, which is already a very cheap ship even with an entosis link fitted, will have avoided anything landing on sov structure grid and completely manage to avoid any risk. You also should remember that the trollceptor is immune to any gatecamp, as it aligns under two seconds and cannot be locked on a gate. Finally, I assume that you are aware of the fact that all interceptors are immune to bubbles.

You are welcome.

I'm sorry Mike, you are going to have to excuse me again on this. I simply am disappointed with a certain tendency of yours.

Do you remember last week, when you were asking us to believe in an internal and private CCP statistic that supposedly shows, somehow, against the laws of simple arithmetic, the sovereign null individual income is bustling, and not crumbling as the reality shows, when compared to other types of space in EVE, even including high-sec? Now, if that is an internal and private statistic, you most likely haven't seen it yourself.

Again, you are asking us who are rightly concerned about the nonsensical essence of this proposal to blindly trust CCP.

Mike, it was my expectation from you as a CSM member to ask the difficult questions to CCP and question everything that has been told by developers to protect the interests of players. But you are repeatedly asking us to blindly trust in CCP, and accept everything they say as a fact. This makes it seem like you are only here to defend the interests of CCP as a company, or perhaps, in a manner similar to a CCP employee.

Are you sure that this is the correct approach a CSM should be taking? You should be presenting us and the rightful concerns cited again and again under this thread, not the other way around.

Except it still can't outrun a 10mn tactical dessie

No matter how bold and caps locked you make it, it doesn't change the simple truth.

No you haven't made anything clear in this case. All you've continued to do is complain about trollceptor tactics. If you don't like how a troll is going to fight then come up with a counter for it. Or, the argument needs to be raised for a balance to be made to the interceptor class since it can effectively drive unopposed into the heart of enemy territory, which should be the most heavily defended. Clearly there's an issue there, but the introduction of the Sov laser isn't the cause of this issue, it's merely a symptom that's bringing the issue to light.