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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

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Grierson Kain
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#341 - 2015-02-28 02:02:56 UTC 
[Wolf, VS - Burner Cruor - Passive]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium Shield Extender II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket

Small Projectile Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


Tank was 245 eHP/s vs 50/50 Therm/EM with 226 DPS

Just completed but despite my shields never dropping below 50% it did take 16 minutes to kill him!

Upon reflection, and checking the logs, I found that the Rockets were doing just 4 HP a pop so hardly worth the PG and CPU! With the extra resources you can swap in a Gyro and a second MSE II which still leaves you with a tank of 198 eHP/s. As the tank is stable I'd go for a RF Gyro which increases DPS to 252.

Many thanks to the guy who posted this fit above somewhere!

In training since January 2007...
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2015-02-28 04:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Kicks
Great alternate tank for the wolf. I posted an armor Jag a while back. I think your low applied DPS is due to no web on the Cruor. I've had great success with a cap booster and web in the mids, and a tank and two RF gyro down low. I end up eating four or five Navy Cap 400 per Cruor, but it's less management than the wolf V1.

I'd link the fits, but using a phone is already bad enough.

Edit:
Wolf V1
Webby Wolf for Cruor
Infra52x Passive Wolf

The Passive Wolf sounds slow, but the price is right. If you don't mind a little danger and are a good cap manager, go Wolf V1 (not a bad price, either). If you want to throw isk at it and be done, the Webby Wolf.
stoicfaux
#343 - 2015-03-01 04:44:39 UTC
Jumping on the perma-tanked Hawk bandwagon versus the Serpentis Burner:

You don't need the AC in the 5th slot. (I didn't hit once with a 200mm AC. Oops) Which frees up a bit of CPU thus making fitting easier. A Pithi C-Type shield booster would work as well.

Took a leisurely ~2m30s to kill. Had to reload once. 268 rockets fired. No overheating.

[Hawk, Burner Serp]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
[empty high slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2015-03-01 09:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
@stoicfaux and all others using a Hawk vs the Burner Daredevil

Have in mind you need at least 1x TII Rigor Rig better 2x when using TII Rockets to get full damage. Actually read this
Alternative Hawk.

The 2x webs + 1x TP should be the best option to get DPS on the Burner Daredevil. The Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster is very cheap like 40m.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
stoicfaux
#345 - 2015-03-08 14:15:47 UTC
On a side note, apologies in advance if everyone already knows this, but you can disengage from burners by flying 250+km from the warp-in beacon. A ..uh.. good friend I implicitly trust (at least when sober,) forgot to pack a mobile depot while fielding sub-par DPS in a perma-tanked setup and was able to escape when the burner "went home" upon reaching the 250km grid boundry.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#346 - 2015-03-08 21:12:40 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Jumping on the perma-tanked Hawk bandwagon versus the Serpentis Burner:

You don't need the AC in the 5th slot. (I didn't hit once with a 200mm AC. Oops) Which frees up a bit of CPU thus making fitting easier. A Pithi C-Type shield booster would work as well.

Took a leisurely ~2m30s to kill. Had to reload once. 268 rockets fired. No overheating.

[Hawk, Burner Serp]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
[empty high slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II



This doesn't work. tried it today and ended up in a stalemate. Not enough DPS to break the tank.
stoicfaux
#347 - 2015-03-09 02:18:51 UTC
Crash Lander wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Jumping on the perma-tanked Hawk bandwagon versus the Serpentis Burner:

You don't need the AC in the 5th slot. (I didn't hit once with a 200mm AC. Oops) Which frees up a bit of CPU thus making fitting easier. A Pithi C-Type shield booster would work as well.

Took a leisurely ~2m30s to kill. Had to reload once. 268 rockets fired. No overheating.

[Hawk, Burner Serp]
...snip...


This doesn't work. tried it today and ended up in a stalemate. Not enough DPS to break the tank.

You were shooting at the Serpentis Daredevil burner, correct?

The log says my rocket volleys were doing 135 damage against the Daredevil's armor. How hard were your rockets hitting?


Or, if you were doing this around 21:15ish server time around Ammold, then something screwy happened, where screwy == damage was delayed and the navitas logi I had stopped shooting started taking damage, and its companion logi stopped repping. (This was in an LML Hawk with precision ammo.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
stoicfaux
#348 - 2015-03-09 03:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Jori McKie wrote:
New Team Burner, general advise and stats:
-Team Burner Stats made by jackudza, thank him for them. Read the sheet very carefully it is important.

The spreadsheet's Team Burner Enyo DPS is a bit high. (346.5 and a 2.0s rof.) The actual numbers are closer to: 314.8 DPS and 2.1s rof.

I figured out the rate of fire by dividing the number of log entries ("Burner Enyo misses" and "from Burner Enjoy" (and remove the "Warp scramble from Burner Enyo") by the elapsed time, which came to 2.1 seconds. There were 603 entries[1] over 1284 seconds which gives a 2.1s rof.

The DPS I got from the wrecking hits (which always do 3x damage.)
[ 2015.03.08 21:19:41 ] (combat) 254 from Burner Enyo - Wrecks
[ 2015.03.08 21:19:44 ] (combat) 254 from Burner Enyo - Wrecks
[ 2015.03.08 21:21:13 ] (combat) 254 from Burner Enyo - Wrecks
[ 2015.03.08 21:23:55 ] (combat) 254 from Burner Enyo - Wrecks

So:
254 / 3 = 84.7 salvo damage after resists

Enyo's Void ammo does 50% kin/therm, and my resists were 89% thermal and 83.5% kinetic.
therm: .5 * 84.7 / (1-.89) = 385
kin: .5 * 84.7 / (1 - .835) = 256.7
So 641.7 damage per volley / 2.1 seconds rof = 305.6 DPS
Add the chance of wrecking back in: 305.6 * 1.03 = 314.8 DPS


[1] Geez, the Hawk's LML damage against burners is weak.


edit: forgot to add wrecking to DPS

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#349 - 2015-03-09 03:59:20 UTC
I don't see why people want to brawl with the Team burners. The kite fits provided work great on the team burner. Might take longer, but are a safer bet.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2015-03-09 22:02:47 UTC
[fit from youtube: FedNavy Comet for Burner Worm]
Published on Sep 15, 2014
[Federation Navy Comet] perfect skills, no implants, no boosters
Small Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 150

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Acolyte II x3

Fit+video
Personally i have lost 3 Comets trying this fit but finally i got it. Thanks for author!

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#351 - 2015-03-10 02:24:16 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

The spreadsheet's Team Burner Enyo DPS is a bit high. (346.5 and a 2.0s rof.) The actual numbers are closer to: 314.8 DPS and 2.1s rof.

I figured out the rate of fire by dividing the number of log entries ("Burner Enyo misses" and "from Burner Enjoy" (and remove the "Warp scramble from Burner Enyo") by the elapsed time, which came to 2.1 seconds. There were 603 entries[1] over 1284 seconds which gives a 2.1s rof.

I've been thinking the same thing. I wasn't as scientific, but I had a Harpy I was trying to make work and I worked down from 340 to about 310 ehp/s on the tank. I scrapped it though. Too slow. It's tough fitting for DPS, speed, tank, and tackle.

Estella Osoka wrote:

I don't see why people want to brawl with the Team burners. The kite fits provided work great on the team burner. Might take longer, but are a safer bet.


I have a Wolf that is great for brawling the Vengeance, and it shares rigs with my Succubus brawler. So why not? But I think you're right with the others. It's been a learning curve on managing my range and transversal to the logi while keeping out of range of the brawler. I have a kiting Jaguar and Retribution for the other three team burners. Weirdly I like using the Retribution a lot more..
bonkerss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2015-03-10 10:53:58 UTC
anyone knows the signature radius from the gurista worm? does the mwd penalty apply?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#353 - 2015-03-10 14:16:11 UTC
Little Kicks wrote:


Estella Osoka wrote:

I don't see why people want to brawl with the Team burners. The kite fits provided work great on the team burner. Might take longer, but are a safer bet.


I have a Wolf that is great for brawling the Vengeance, and it shares rigs with my Succubus brawler. So why not? But I think you're right with the others. It's been a learning curve on managing my range and transversal to the logi while keeping out of range of the brawler. I have a kiting Jaguar and Retribution for the other three team burners. Weirdly I like using the Retribution a lot more..


I would figure the Wolf would be better at kiting than the Jaguar. I normally use a Kestrel or Garmur, depending on where I am at.
Grierson Kain
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#354 - 2015-03-11 03:02:13 UTC 
[Hawk, vs - Burner Daredevil]
Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System
Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System

Dread Guristas Medium Shield Booster
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
[empty high slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


This is a variation on the fit I just lost because I wasn't paying attention. The DPS I put out was fine when I had 2 webs on the burner but as soon as the cap dried up the webs shut down and my DPS dropped massively. He was orbiting outside of the normal range for my webs, I tried overheating but I'd already gone too far and couldn't catch up.

So I've swapped in some faction webs for their increased range and will just hope I can manage my combat better the next time. :o/

Whilst interesting and certainly more challenging than any mission I've done solo before these are getting bloody expensive.

In training since January 2007...
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2015-03-11 19:44:26 UTC
Can the dramiel be killed with any non-faction hybrid or laser boat? I can fly gallente or amarr t2 frigates with nearly full skills for lasers and hybrids...I lost 2 comets to the dram and should probably just walk away but with the LP reward these missions are worth too much to just ignore. Interested also is gallente/amarr boats that work for other burners without shiny fittings...all I see on this thread so far is missile/projectile boats and daredevils.
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#356 - 2015-03-12 02:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Kicks
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Can the dramiel be killed with any non-faction hybrid or laser boat? I can fly gallente or amarr t2 frigates with nearly full skills for lasers and hybrids...I lost 2 comets to the dram and should probably just walk away but with the LP reward these missions are worth too much to just ignore. Interested also is gallente/amarr boats that work for other burners without shiny fittings...all I see on this thread so far is missile/projectile boats and daredevils.


I have crappy laser skills, and this laser boat kites great for me.

[Retribution, Team Hawk/Jaguar Kiter]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Fourier Transform Tracking Program

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Focused Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

I figured the Retribution would be good for the Dramiel, but I'm pretty happy with my Jag:

[Jaguar, Burner Dramiel ]
Gyrostabilizer II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Gyrostabilizer II

Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner

Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

133 eHP/s, but only for 44s. ~240 DPS overheated with 0.56 rad/s, and the fight is usually over in around 75s. I've EFT warriored, but not tested a Retribution fit:


[Retribution, Burner D ]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Core A-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Capacitor Power Relay II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Gatling Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Gatling Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Gatling Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Gatling Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Energy Collision Accelerator I

My T1 laser skills can only muster 200 DPS heated (38s), 0.55 rad/s, and 120 ehp/s sustained (no NOS). I worry that the single web and the slow speed will leave the Dramiel orbiting ~0.22 rad/s, pushing down the applied DPS. So bring a mobile depot and WCSs.

You may have access to T2 lasers, or know better what laser/crystal combo is best for this. The Vengeance has three mids, so it could double web+TP. My rocket skills are worse than my lasers.

I hope this give you some ideas, at least.
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#357 - 2015-03-12 03:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Kicks
Estella Osoka wrote:

I would figure the Wolf would be better at kiting than the Jaguar. I normally use a Kestrel or Garmur, depending on where I am at.


I'm a first-generation kiter here, so I make it up as I go. I looked at a Wolf and Jag for the job: I can fit a Jag with 18km/18km optimal/falloff shooting RF Fusion 180 DPS. My Wolf is more like 8.6km/28km, same type setup at 210 DPS.

Right now, I can usually hold both the Burner and his logi ~20km. I give the burner a wide berth in these events. 20km is only 2km deep into falloff for the Jag, but ~11km for the Wolf (or 11% vs 39%). Roughly guestimating, 20km would be about the break even point here. If I can snuggle up a little, the Wolf will shine. If the logi falls back while the burner is still pressing, then the Jag will post better numbers (to a point, probably ~30km).

The DPS delta in that range will be pretty close. I like that the Jag also fits a TP, which I think will open up a little more flexibility when dealing with the logi.

[Jaguar, Team Enyo Kiter]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
[Empty High slot]

Small Projectile Locus Coordinator II
Small Projectile Locus Coordinator II

I won't bore you with the Wolf. Very similar, single TCII, dual Ambit II, 3 RF gyros, MAPC and co-processor down low, too.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2015-03-12 04:14:20 UTC
As I said I can't fly minmatar or caldari frigs. Looking for gallente/amarr fits.

Just took down the jaguar with kite retribution, took me about 10 minutes. Wondering if it will work against anything else. I had to manual pilot the entire time to avoid getting scrammed.
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#359 - 2015-03-12 04:34:01 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
As I said I can't fly minmatar or caldari frigs. Looking for gallente/amarr fits.

Just took down the jaguar with kite retribution, took me about 10 minutes. Wondering if it will work against anything else. I had to manual pilot the entire time to avoid getting scrammed.


yeah sorry to bore you with gun talk. The retribution kites the Hawk no problem (stay out 18km). A brawler retribution could work on Dramiel, but I've not tested it, and it's only a single web.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#360 - 2015-03-12 05:24:02 UTC
Little Kicks wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
As I said I can't fly minmatar or caldari frigs. Looking for gallente/amarr fits.

Just took down the jaguar with kite retribution, took me about 10 minutes. Wondering if it will work against anything else. I had to manual pilot the entire time to avoid getting scrammed.


yeah sorry to bore you with gun talk. The retribution kites the Hawk no problem (stay out 18km). A brawler retribution could work on Dramiel, but I've not tested it, and it's only a single web.



I was thinking about a propless retribution with dual webs, gatling lasers + multifreq for best tracking and a nos/repper. Don't know if it would work though.