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[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1321 - 2015-03-11 21:50:32 UTC
Zappity wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This is why people with zero experience with sov warfare should not be in this thread.


This is wrong. The fact that you do not find the current, broken sov system interesting and worth getting invested in should not exclude you from commenting on the new system, which will hopefully repair some of that brokenness. Otherwise the only feedback will be from people who find the current system acceptable.

Oh so you're making excuses for not knowing now.

It's fine really, ccp will rather listen to you than evil cfc people anyway, just rant away about ending our 0.0 nightmare

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1322 - 2015-03-11 21:52:50 UTC
Zappity wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This is why people with zero experience with sov warfare should not be in this thread.


This is wrong. The fact that you do not find the current, broken sov system interesting and worth getting invested in should not exclude you from commenting on the new system, which will hopefully repair some of that brokenness. Otherwise the only feedback will be from people who find the current system acceptable.


When have we ever said we find the current situation acceptable?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1323 - 2015-03-11 21:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
baltec1 wrote:
When have we ever said we find the current situation acceptable?

Sorry I had a question for you before you try and move onto another topic:

Are trollceptors uncatchable?

Yes/no

edit: some thinking music

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1324 - 2015-03-11 21:58:32 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:

But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.


Flown right then yea, they will escape more than you can kill them. The point however, that you keep on missing, is that sov battles will become nothing but swarms of intercepters and other small fast ships build to avoid rather than fight. The end result being an even more boring sov system than tower bashing.
Eli Apol wrote:

edit: Nice of you to catch up on the T3 dessie meta by the way - fortunately these can be bubbled as you'll be glad to hear.


What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1325 - 2015-03-11 22:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:

But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.


Flown right then yea
Wrong. Even flown right they can be chased down and ruined by a 10km/s T3 dessie (much more with links and implants).
edit: With LUCK they might get away if they have less than half of their entosis module cycle time remaining and are flown right.
2nd edit: Also remember that the defending team could quite feasibly start a stopwatch when the initial ping comes through and time their attack 2m01 afterwards = definitely dead ceptors.

baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

They can be bubbled when you try and trololol to the next system then. Or are you actually going to have a fight in that system? Does the proposed mechanic work in making you fight for grid dominance in your T3 dessie uberfit (which I'm sure there will be counters for as well)?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1326 - 2015-03-11 22:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time.

But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...

Personally, I think CCP should just let things ride as is. Let the evasion fits fly and let the Sov holders come up with counters. I guarantee you that the trollceptor that everyone is freaking out about will not be the problem child fit. Odds are it's going to be some crazy decked out T3 that will become the headache to end all headaches.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Flaming Butterfly
2 PIRATES 1 CUP
Grim Future.
#1327 - 2015-03-11 22:16:37 UTC
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1328 - 2015-03-11 22:17:46 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time.

But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...


Wormholes. We use them more than titans these days.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1329 - 2015-03-11 22:19:11 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:

But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.


Flown right then yea
Wrong. Even flown right they can be chased down and ruined by a 10km/s T3 dessie (much more with links and implants).
edit: With LUCK they might get away if they have less than half of their entosis module cycle time remaining and are flown right.
2nd edit: Also remember that the defending team could quite feasibly start a stopwatch when the initial ping comes through and time their attack 2m01 afterwards = definitely dead ceptors.

baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

They can be bubbled when you try and trololol to the next system then. Or are you actually going to have a fight in that system? Does the proposed mechanic work in making you fight for grid dominance in your T3 dessie uberfit (which I'm sure there will be counters for as well)?


Way to ignore yet again the entire point of the trollcepter and why its terrible.
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1330 - 2015-03-11 22:19:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kristian Hackett wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time.

But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...


Wormholes. We use them more than titans these days.

Wormholes can be collapsed.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#1331 - 2015-03-11 22:20:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kristian Hackett wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time.

But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...


Wormholes. We use them more than titans these days.


Lets focus on your earlier post where you ask for people to suggest ways to kill an interceptor

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1332 - 2015-03-11 22:25:58 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmEwZ2JJOUk#t=1m11

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1333 - 2015-03-11 22:26:07 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:

But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.

Flown right then yea
Wrong. Even flown right they can be chased down and ruined by a 10km/s T3 dessie (much more with links and implants).

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but oversized propmods kinda kill your agility don't they? All an inty has to do is turn left or right and the T3 will be severely penalized.
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1334 - 2015-03-11 22:27:08 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kristian Hackett wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?

Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time.

But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...


Wormholes. We use them more than titans these days.


Lets focus on your earlier post where you ask for people to suggest ways to kill an interceptor

I can answer that, in fact, I already did - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5573127#post5573127
Add in the Cruor and Garmur fits from here - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5573252#post5573252

That interceptor isn't going to last long if it tries to maintain the link...

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1335 - 2015-03-11 22:27:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We do not intend to allow pure evasion tactics to become optimal.


Then make it disable prop mods on a ship activating it.

Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible. The solution is to make them impossible.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1336 - 2015-03-11 22:29:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We do not intend to allow pure evasion tactics to become optimal.


Then make it disable prop mods on a ship activating it.

Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible. The solution is to make them impossible.

I have to agree here. You can disrupt a pure evasion fit, but you can't remove it from grid. Disable the prop mods - if the attacker wants to stick around they better be ready to fight (or soak a stupid amount of damage).

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1337 - 2015-03-11 22:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
interceptors can be removed if you have a faster tackle, T3s would be a headache.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1338 - 2015-03-11 22:30:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible.

[Citation needed]
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1339 - 2015-03-11 22:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but oversized propmods kinda kill your agility don't they? All an inty has to do is turn left or right and the T3 will be severely penalized.

T3 dessie has an agility buff whilst in prop mode.

Ceptor has to change direction enough to make it out of OH scram range from something chasing it at double the speed.

*maybe* with superb manual pilotting he might manage it, whilst the chasing dessie only has to press approach - a well timed sling shot *might* work but could be countered by the dessie pilots skill as well.

Sounds like a fun or not so fun minute or two for the ceptor pilot at least.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1340 - 2015-03-11 22:35:20 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible.

[Citation needed]


Ever heard of these new things they have now, called people? People will always take the low road, they will always do as little as possible to get to their goals. It's really rather interesting.

Sarcasm aside, it's a binary equation. Either it's possible to capture sov by dicking around in a kiting ship, or it's not. If it is, then it's a damn sight easier than actually fighting for sov, so it will become the optimal assignment of resources.



"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.