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All i see is a whole lot of hate coming from CCP.

CCP has made it their mission to flame hate null each passing year that goes by and its members in all the various alliances who call this space home.

This new patch from my point of view this will hurt high sec far more than null....

Why? the value of minerals will now be worth dirt. No more will ore be needed from high sec and if it is it will be in such small amounts it will be pitiful.

No need to have so many titans or supers......derp .......and now you are going to make them worthless to boot....wow a totally lame move in all respects.

The only thing making it worth while to mine was the value of isk ........Now you have just killed an entire profession......lol peachy job. :)

Isk sink...... Now null will have controlled areas at a far less cost for the large established alliances.

Mmm. more ship replacement funds for our alliances to play more burn jita games.....rofl

Thank you CCP :)

Now off to renter space.....sov can be dropped there and a heavy handed level of extortion will be taking place.

With Phoebe fully in place who is going to want to live in the far ends of eve null space with heavy handed super powers all about you? NO ONE. Nor does the super powers of eve have any interest in this space either.

Now to baby sitting.......that is what I see. Not so much with the major alliances but it will be most hurtful of the smaller entities as the large guys adapt and the small guys get trounced due to the over whelming numbers to create hundreds of timers within a 4 hour space.

Now then, what about all the rewards that were promised? i have yet to see CCP reward members in null.....oh yea, small gift of indy cost shaved for building......WOW .....thanks but very lame given risk reward for living in null.

Null space players are all about PVP in all its aspects with anything else just being noise to pass the time. Most buy from jita and have it shipped out no matter what the cost.

Touching on the indy end for a moment.....Unless you have everything at your finger tips to make the ships, mods ect, building in null is a pain in the ass.

For doing t2 you have to copy and invent at one station for best results, refine at another for the same reason and lastly bring all that crap together to get a finished product.....so much wasted time compared to high sec.

Next item on the agenda.

So many have spent huge sums of isk to have the best M/E for the massively expensive bpo's, and for what? naught!!!! absolute lameness.

Massive time investment.

Your player base as a group has spent countless amount of hours training to be high end super capital pilots..... now you are saying refund the skill points or hey guys its now an over sized command ship... How wrong is this???

Do you think all that time and effort is kind to anyone to say .....well, you can always use these massive ships to shoot a pos now and again.

Who are these people? All high end old indy player base and hard core PVP vets.

I guess many start inserting many nice things.

So little love for null....... Killing off of the largest ships in the game that so many have aspired to fly and trained for over a very long time to aquire max skills.

I have played since mid 2006 and have seen much in this game, made a lot of good friends, and friendly enemies.

CCP if you are really looking to give a death kneel to wonderful game we have played of a good many years then continue this path.

May i suggest making the EVE map 2 or 5x its current size and if you really want more members in the far ends of eve with more utilization then additional access to these areas might be viable, besides WH's.

If you do decide on a larger eve then make all the npc rats sleepers or harder.........now this is risk vs reward.

In this new area you can distribute moons on a more even basis than mess with what is currently on the map.

If this area is so hard to rat then regular and supers would then again have value..right?

Keep the ehp's stations in current null the same but make it a real workout for the new area.

Let us create our own stable WH gates...at great cost of course to this new home.

Then take your thinking forward.

We do not want to lose the most massive ships due to utter lameness.

No more stupid nerf's

We, your players of eve enjoy a challenge.

So give us one that lives up to the reputation that EVE use to command.

I will !!

Massadeath so passionately said he would drag us into a new sovless world if we liked it or not, he's so forceful i'm being carried away by his

<3 <3

No sorry but your wrong -
The ONLY problem with sov as it is today is the fact Sheer numbers will always win. This isn't changing under the new proposals, in fact it is going to make it easier for sheer numbers to win.

This is being magnified under the new sov proposal by becoming "he who can field the most in a 4 hour period wins".

I'm curious, How do you think these changes will affect the the big coalitions? I agree having 2 or 3 mega groups holding all the prime sov and bleeding everyone else out of nul is not good but these changes do little to change this.
Holding sov you don't use is a privilege of the rich and stupid. All they will do is drop sov in all the crappy systems they never use and because they have overwhelming numbers and a coalition to back them up, won't lose any system they want to keep.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A couple of questions for all those who believe these new mini games will "fix" sov nul; (the ones devs should be asking themselves but only if their stated goals hold any truth)
Who is going to be able to protect their sov more easily?
1: No-one
2: Anyone who wants to
3; The large coalitions have a much better chance

Who is going to be in the best position to grief smaller alliances into quitting sov (or aligning)
1: no-one
2: anyone who wants to
3: the large coalitions have a much better chance




If these changes are introduced in their current proposal CCP has lied to everyone, Again

Okay, I did promise more later. So, having had some time to think over the changes, here are my notes (I'll try to be less longwinded than normal):

1) Command Points - What lore reason POSSIBLY exists for these? What happens when an Alliance only owns one system in the Constellation? Do they have to venture into possibly ENEMY space (not even the attacker, necessarily) to DEFEND their system? And how does this make sense in ANY way?

_Subpoint_ Though, again, if you went with my idea about placing upgrades for a system in neighboring systems and having Command Nodes spawn in them - coms sats would make sense since they could be places along the upgrade transmission line for pilots to hack into the network - then this absolves my issue.

2) The "Trollceptor" has been done to death, but yeah - maybe the fitting requirements should make the T1 only accessible to Cruisers (or Destroyers) and larger, the T2 for BCs/BSs and larger, or a gimped fit T3? Could make it a Command thingy...(WF Link)

3) As a person who's only ever been in small Alliances pretty much (I think briefly a bigger one, but I was a newb and my Corp didn't last long there and I had to leave the game for a while so didn't really know what happened when I got back, lol), I see this as not super great for small Alliances. Again, if we only own one or two systems, how are we supposed to defend our space when Command Nodes spawn across the entire Constellation? While maybe this change allows mid-sized Alliances to survive against the big Coalitions, it also means if you can't field enough people to spread across 5-7 systems, you don't have a place in Null. So it imposes a size floor for defense even while removing it for attack.

4) It seems to me bubbles would control the whole experience. Whoever has the larger fleet and can camp the gates basically could trap the defenders in their system for the whole event and fly uncontested to the rest of the Constellation taking Command Nodes.

_Subpoint_ Again, if you use something akin to my idea from before, then this becomes a risk/benefit analysis on the part of the people building up their space. But for small Alliances, this basically means you will be entirely unable to HOLD Sov on even one system due to the Command Node spawning thing. Will you make Bubbles inactive for the space while Command Nodes are spawned? But what does this do to neighbors - supposing, for example, the defenders share their Constellation with a neutral third party that isn't trying to attack them or assault their CNs, but suddenly finds all their defensive bubbles inactive?

5) How does hacking make IHubs and TCUs blow up, exactly? Are the things secretly loaded with bombs (that they never use) that the hackers detonate?

6) 250 km seems like a looooooong range (and this from a person that tends to LIKE dictating range, mind you).

7) Doesn't this scenario disadvantage smaller Alliances (as I've said), but also SEVERELY disadvantage Alliances that have systems on either side of a Constellation gate? Like, if a small Alliance only owned two systems, connected on either side of Constellation gate, they now have to DEFEND potentially 10-14 systems to hold their 2.

8) Second major lore issue - vulnerability windows. Like...seriously. WHAT is the lore explanation for these? Is there one? Can one even be invented? CONCORD has devised an antivirus that is very very powerful and they freely give this technology to NullSec empires, but every day, they have to have 4 hours to run a software patch (though said empires can specify their downtime)? Is there some kind of "software Stront" that has been invented, that has no consumption rate, but has to recharge for 4 hours every day? Like...seriously, WHAT is the explanation for this? This just seems kinda like that political thing in the US that people hate, but which was billed as "Well, we all hate it, but it's required for the system to work and not collapse itself". It seems like this is something that shouldn't be, makes no sense, and most people would oppose on principle, but seems to just *MAGIC* because REASONS - the reason being we have to have something and there's no good idea, so here's what we get...

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1 and 8, particularly, are lore issues that are just like "wtf?" That's usually a bad sign for a mechanic when you can't in any real way explain it in terms of the game universe's rules. That whole immersion thing.

Most of the rest is, again, from my perspective, how this change actually hurts, rather than helps, smaller Alliances.

There's some merit to the changes, but is definitely needs some tweaks. These are just my issues (and in the case of 1/2/4b, how to mitigate them).

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Basically:

-Upgrades past level 2 have to be placed outside of system, Command Nodes spawn in all systems where an upgrade is placed linked to the attacked system.
-ELs can only be placed on Destroyers and larger. T2s maybe higher requirements still.
-Vulnerability windows...wtf?

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That's pretty much it. Thanks for reading!

Note: I'm neither a Goon nor member of N3, so...take from that what you will.

Wow, 108 mil per hour (54 mil per hour per toon). Nice.

In high sec you can use a Mach and make 86 mil per hour doing lvl 3 missions while being protected by CONCORD.

So for the cost of using TWO characters and a CAPITAL SHIP that takes months to train for, and while flying in space where the space police won't help you, you get a whopping, mind blowing 22 million isk extra per hour total.

Thanks for helping us empirically demonstrate the imbalances we were discussing, imbalances that end up distorting everything ccp tries to do with null sec.

Another note on the vulnerability window:

A friend of mine put it very elegantly - This completely destroys the concept of a sandbox more than any other single change in the history of Eve.

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At first I disputed his claim...but then I found I couldn't actually think of any other anti-sandbox change in Eve of this magnitude, and had to submit that he's right. I tend to dislike hyperbole, but I had to concede the point.

This change directly prevents sandbox/chaos theory random events from happening because it places an artificial, hard coded (to the mechanics set) rule that prevents interactions from occurring. That is, in the absence of it, Sov interactions can occur at any time and place - hence the sandbox. But once implemented, it presents an (more) artificial wall in the sandbox, a gatekeeper, saying you can only play with this part of the sandbox between the hours of 1400 and 1800.

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So while my initial opposition to it was based on lore reasons (my forementioned "wtf" factor), I now also oppose it on the grounds of it being yet another policeman in the sandbox directing the children at play.

Considering that's one of the three major draws of Eve (space game, sandbox/shared universe, geopolitics), that's very unfortunate. It's one of the main things that gives Eve its appeal! Not a good thing to take away.

Didn't he help more or less buff all the T1 ships?

This Entosis Link, for all purposes a "Sovereignty Warfare Link Module", need to be a sort of siege module that can only be fitted to:
Combat BC, Fleet and Field Command Ships, Carrier, MOM and Titan

which are all more than capable (lorewise as being able to impart leadership bonuses very effectively) of equipping such an advanced system. We just engineered the things from sleepers/drifters so there has to be a ship capable of projecting the capsuleer's will over their enemy.

Entosis Link Strength T1 = 1; can only be fitted on BC, Carrier; 100km
Entosis Link Strength T2 = 1; can only be fitted on CS, MOM, TITAN; 200km range

Combat BC +200% to Entosis Link Str (2)
Carrier +700% to Entosis Link Str (7)

Command Ship +300% to Entosis Link Str (3)
MOM +1500% to Entosis Link Str (15)
TITAN +3000% to Entosis Link Str (30)

Bonus for Defenders -up to 100% boost for really well used and developed space
Penalty for Attackers -up to 50% penalty


When Entosis link is active, the vessel goes into a 'broadcast' mode within the 100km range for T1 link and 200 for T2 MWD and MMJD cannot be activated and reduces their lock-range, scan res, targets -the device literally takes over the ship systems to exert the will of the pilots. Cannot active the Entosis link outside of it's range from structure... will deactivate and reduce your fleet's effectiveness -warping out does the same, just drops the points in area.
Counter links ships are affected the same with system bonuses giving them an advantage, meaning many fewer needed to defend space -helluva battle of the wills there and still great pew-pew from the rest of the fleet.


Alliance A arrives in B's turf with 20 BC's, 8 command ships, 2 carriers, and a Titan fitted with Links.
Alliance B has has maxed out the area and people love them. 50% penalty to E-Link Str to attackers, 100% bonus for defenders.
Alliance A goes from 108 points but penalized to an effective 54 points.

The sov unit they are going after has a Entosis resistance rating of 40/5 meaning an aggressor must have at least 40 unmodified Entosis Strength to affect it coming from at least 5 sources. Alliance A has it even though for affect-time their strength is 54 points and can affect the structure.

Alliance B comes out to the structure with 50 T1 BC for an unmodified E-link Str of 100 points and with system bonus have 200 points. Alliance A was planning on this taking 30 minutes, but it's gonna take 2 hours minimum unless the points drop on the defender's side. Thankfully Alliance A has 60 people who just jumped in for pew-pew and wasting defending E-links. Alliance B rallies together their peeps for some pew pew against a Titan.

As both sides lose ships, their control points drop and finally A's control points drop below the 40 points needed to affect the structure and is forced to beg off even though Alliance B lost all their BC's and has 0 points... Even if that Titan and the 2 carriers are the only things left on the field and they have 44 unmodified points, they are only 3 and they need 2 more E-Link sources to affect it.


See what I did there... made the humble BC's pretty damn important and the big bad-ass ships commanders would have just as important while leaving the pvp pew-pew fleets elements doing exactly what they're designed to do -kill **** instead of raving to Thomas the Train Engine or Sesame Street with glo-sticks up their tailpipes.


For the Time Element, the E-Link Strength might be 100 points x the rating giving that structure 4000 points so Alliance A with their effective 54 points per cycle (1 minute?) will require 74 minutes uncontested to dominate it by chipping away at the "Firewall". Defender effective Str reinforces the Firewall for 200 points per cycle. Now, yes, this new system is largely aimed at unoccupied/undefended space. Hopefully, the EvE map will have large expanses of open territory -fighting room- for alliances and well established core systems which in the future could be "home worlds".

The above was a core worlds scenario involving 2 small alliances. If the aggressor had taken time to reduce those things that boost the defensive bonus to 100% and offensive penalty to 50%, they might have taken it faster.

Yes, CCP, great system if done with PVP in mind.

LOL.. yes he did. Then promptly nerfed much of the ability to use them with fatigue.

Fozzie is also the mastermind behind rapid launchers - Aren't they just a wonder to behold.
Rapid lights do see some use - because there is no alternative as heavy missiles launchers simply suck for anything other than level 3's and some lvl 4's.
Rapid Heavies - I've had 200 of them on market for 6 months - So far sold 8 (and that was recently, when I decided to drop the price to 20% below Jita to try and get rid of them)

The 1 or 2 good changes Fozzie has masterminded are far outweighed by what is to come.

Level 3's, as you once said to me which was not moderated but my reply was so it must be OK, "Keep taking your meds!"

Is it you who keeps reporting my posts, bit sad if it is, I bet you report this one too as off topic so your off topic one gets left with no reply, its about your level isn't it!

As for your points on this CCP know what income levels are, see what Fozzie's said on income about null sec revenue, so keep beating your drum on level 4's it is not listened to.