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[thera] (protect market) => (forcefield around stations)

Author
Ben Ishikela
#1 - 2015-03-08 16:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Ishikela
"You shall not pollute the land in which you live, for blood pollutes the land, in the midst of which I dwell, for I, the MARKET, dwell in the midst of the people of Thera.” "
^failed.
The following is not a suggestion yet, since i want to discuss it first.

Status:
I read this article about thera http://crossingzebras.com/therable/ , and i saw, that its market needs a little help.
^TL:DR
.(Stations are Hellcamped -> travelers cant buy&go -> bad traffic)
.(no local&no numbers->uncertainty->low investment)

Prerequisits:
.Thera needs to adapt
EDIT - BUBBELS THAT ARE DEPLOYD AFTER THE VICTIM HIT THE WARPBUTTON NEED TO HAVE AN EFFECT ON ITS SHIP (otherwise thera would be very lame with below changes) (how to realise this requirement is another question. but until then: "good bye FF")

Goals:
.more traffic
.higher investments
.more unique pvp at wormholes
.healthy market -> better support for faraway nullsec

..to be continued..

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Ben Ishikela
#2 - 2015-03-08 16:59:43 UTC
Changes:
phase1:
.Forcefield around the stations in thera
..size: small enough to suppport bumping of afk ships & big enough to support alignment after undock
..the FF is neutral. everyone can enter. no password.
..the FF affects targeting as usual. no smartbombs etc.

phase2: (3 months later, if after phase1 thera needs still some help)
.kill statistics for thera-only enabled
.show numbers in local
.. how many are undocked?

Examples:
.Bob came here to buy an expensive officer module for his titan, now he wants to undock. he has no eyes on the station and certainly does not want to wait 4hours until the camp might be gone. he undocks, gets killes and the modules in his ship goes to the looter. the loot is sold. and on goes the cycle.
.. after the proposed changes bob can safely undock and have a look around. noone can target him and he aligns. he decided to warp to his NullExit. unfortunately he gets caught in a bubble and dies. the loot get sold again.
.. he tries again and uses a bounce spots, made by a scout. he exits and had a trip of interesting interaction.
.Helga does not know whether there is someone to pvp around here. The system could be empty or filled to the rim. She does not not and travels to the next system.
.. after phase2 she sees the number of people that are active. now she can hunt for targets, guessing the odds to find sb. also she invests into a buy orders of common loot to make some profit on the side because she knows there are potential customers.

Conclusion:
Have at it!

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Ben Ishikela
#3 - 2015-03-08 17:00:32 UTC
Issues:
.removal of choice -> yes, alright. BUT more choice possible in WHAT wormhole to bubble and how.
.hellcamping had been fun -> fine, but let me say this:"less traffic -> less targets". cant go on like this.
.empty ships and cans pollution -> scoop them and dock OR make restriction

Crazy and bad-ideas:
.the FF collapses if the station needs to support more than 100 guests.
.the FF is a shootable stationservice
.sometimes the password changes to some random number and then switches quickly back to none again. but in between everyone in it gets starbursted. the one that guessed the number wins!

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#4 - 2015-03-08 17:05:05 UTC
Haha, no. Thera is 0.0, welcome to nosec.

If you can't stand the heat, leave.

You are not entilted to pampering because you don't want to deal with the unpleasant aspects of livingin a null security area.
Ben Ishikela
#5 - 2015-03-08 17:26:43 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Haha, no. Thera is 0.0, welcome to nosec.

If you can't stand the heat, leave.

You are not entilted to pampering because you don't want to deal with the unpleasant aspects of livingin a null security area.


.Have you at least read the article that i linked?
Anhenka wrote:
If you can't stand the heat, leave.

That is the common reaction. That is also why it seems to not work like intended by CCP.

On the topic of nullsec that you mentioned: Its neither typical null nor typical wh. Do you live there? What is your experience with undock camping?

.This is no Q&A forum
.This is intended to help you get MORE targets.
.Thanks for the laugh!

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2015-03-08 17:30:11 UTC
Thera is what the players make of it. If you want players to stop doing something you don't want them to do, make them stop. Last I checked, non-consentual PvP didn't break the rules, so there's no reason for CCP to step in and do anything about your problems in Thera. Additiionally, due to the fact that there is stuff on market there, and that people do indeed live there, it seems to me that Thera is working as intended. It is a driver of conflict, and you are merely content. If you don't like it, don't go to Thera. Leave the markets there for those less risk averse than you.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2015-03-08 17:41:23 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Haha, no. Thera is 0.0, welcome to nosec.

If you can't stand the heat, leave.

You are not entilted to pampering because you don't want to deal with the unpleasant aspects of livingin a null security area.


.Have you at least read the article that i linked?
Anhenka wrote:
If you can't stand the heat, leave.

That is the common reaction. That is also why it seems to not work like intended by CCP.

On the topic of nullsec that you mentioned: Its neither typical null nor typical wh. Do you live there? What is your experience with undock camping?

.This is no Q&A forum
.This is intended to help you get MORE targets.
.Thanks for the laugh!


Yes I read it. Peoples belief that Thera would be some sort of WH uptopia of small gang fighting and a roving Jita was always incredibly unrealistic. Everyone with any sense knew exactly what would happen; people would initially flood in, stock the market, and then soon leave when the they realized that surprise surprise, heavy neutral gangs and campable exit points mean that the market is not as cushy as expected.

As for me, I have lived in NPC null and dealt with undock camping. It's a pain in the ass to deal with, but removing it because you think people should be able to undock and warp off immune to interaction is laughable.

Thera is a new place where people can interact as they choose. CCP NEVER stated that it was supposed to be an easy to stock safe roving Jita, that was all unrealistic player hype. So when you propose changes so that your industrial can undock and align unmolested completely safe from people shooting it, you are asking CCP to pick a particular playstyle as the way Thera should be.

TLDR: Thera is nullsec. It may not be quite what you wanted it to be, but that's your problem.
Ben Ishikela
#8 - 2015-03-08 17:41:28 UTC
Keep the Shitstorm coming!

Additional Clarification:
.no sentries
.no fckn concord no never
.Thera might be good as it is, i just wondered if FF would be an improvement to gameplay there. as it might make it more interesting also for the bad ass pirates that everyone claims to be.

Hint: "improvement" does not need to have a complaint as prerequisit.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#9 - 2015-03-08 17:52:59 UTC
As someone who lives in Thera I can assure you that you are in fact a moron.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

Ben Ishikela
#10 - 2015-03-08 17:55:34 UTC
Anhenka wrote:

As for me, I have lived in NPC null and dealt with undock camping. It's a pain in the ass to deal with, but removing it because you think people should be able to undock and warp off immune to interaction is laughable.

Thera is a new place where people can interact as they choose. CCP NEVER stated that it was supposed to be an easy to stock safe roving Jita, that was all unrealistic player hype. So when you propose changes so that your industrial can undock and align unmolested completely safe from people shooting it, you are asking CCP to pick a particular playstyle as the way Thera should be.

.Yes, that might be.
.But i do not intend it to be lame safe like jita. I agree that there should be risk to transportation.
.Wouldn't there still be the possibility to camp the wormholes, since warps are still long enough to prepare?
.. If dropping a bubble 20km+ towards the station from the hole where the hauler is in warp from and catching him ergo, is NO possible gameplay, then FF are very bad indeed.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#11 - 2015-03-08 18:01:03 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Anhenka wrote:

As for me, I have lived in NPC null and dealt with undock camping. It's a pain in the ass to deal with, but removing it because you think people should be able to undock and warp off immune to interaction is laughable.

Thera is a new place where people can interact as they choose. CCP NEVER stated that it was supposed to be an easy to stock safe roving Jita, that was all unrealistic player hype. So when you propose changes so that your industrial can undock and align unmolested completely safe from people shooting it, you are asking CCP to pick a particular playstyle as the way Thera should be.

.Yes, that might be.
.But i do not intend it to be lame safe like jita. I agree that there should be risk to transportation.
.Wouldn't there still be the possibility to camp the wormholes, since warps are still long enough to prepare?
.. If dropping a bubble 20km+ towards the station from the hole where the hauler is in warp from and catching him ergo, is NO possible gameplay, then FF are very bad indeed.


As soon as you hit the warp button, if there's no bubble up you will land at your destination.

If you undock a freighter and hit warp, it doesn't matter if one second later they deploy bubbles solid for 1k km around the WH, you will sail right through them, even if it takes you 5 minutes to align, warp, and travel to the exit.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2015-03-08 18:07:15 UTC
I like that Thera fails. Can't wait for CCP to remove that underused, few people benefiting aspect of the game. Twisted

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Ben Ishikela
#13 - 2015-03-08 18:45:15 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
As soon as you hit the warp button, if there's no bubble up you will land at your destination.
If you undock a freighter and hit warp, it doesn't matter if one second later they deploy bubbles solid for 1k km around the WH, you will sail right through them, even if it takes you 5 minutes to align, warp, and travel to the exit.

Thank you for that comment.
I was not aware of that. Wasnt written in the usual wiki and i am a bloody noob Lol
If it is too much workload for the Servers to check onBubbleDeploy or onBubbleDestroy if there is anyone in warp currently affected by it, then its certainly not going to work as suitable gameplay.
But if bubbles were fixed that way, it could be awesome.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2015-03-08 18:54:27 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
As soon as you hit the warp button, if there's no bubble up you will land at your destination.
If you undock a freighter and hit warp, it doesn't matter if one second later they deploy bubbles solid for 1k km around the WH, you will sail right through them, even if it takes you 5 minutes to align, warp, and travel to the exit.

Thank you for that comment.
I was not aware of that. Wasnt written in the usual wiki and i am a bloody noob Lol
If it is too much workload for the Servers to check onBubbleDeploy or onBubbleDestroy if there is anyone in warp currently affected by it, then its certainly not going to work as suitable gameplay.
But if bubbles were fixed that way, it could be awesome.

The problem with checking on the bubble side instead of on the ship side is that a bubble side check has to query every single ship in the system to see if its flight path intersects the bubble. After that, every ship still has to query the bubbles to see if they intersect, as the system works now. Not exactly how it works, I know, but close enough for explanation. Essentially, you are adding more work to the server to fix something that isn't a problem to begin with.
Madd Adda
#15 - 2015-03-08 19:29:30 UTC
the whole issue with thera is the lack of NPC security. Jita thrived because you can't get away with just freely camping and popping ships in and out (at least without a large amount of ships and some way to maintain sec status >-0.5).

Unless they make it a non-aggression area, it simply won't be as good as jita. Even if it does become a non-aggression area, it defeats its own purpose of a lawless jita.

Carebear extraordinaire

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#16 - 2015-03-08 19:59:18 UTC
they problem with all of these smaller market areas is
1: the extreme price on an item, I was in null sec where frigate hulls were 5m ea
2: freelance merchants simply cant go anywhere with out using a offpeak time as everyone in low and null has the twitchy kill aspect and think they must kill everything in site, other wise id be running wares at around 10% jita prices.

the biggest thing about trading anything out there is if you aren't blue, don't even try it. because people cant get over having to have something on their killboards to throw around.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#17 - 2015-03-08 20:24:21 UTC
Agondray wrote:
they problem with all of these smaller market areas is
1: the extreme price on an item, I was in null sec where frigate hulls were 5m ea
2: freelance merchants simply cant go anywhere with out using a offpeak time as everyone in low and null has the twitchy kill aspect and think they must kill everything in site, other wise id be running wares at around 10% jita prices.

the biggest thing about trading anything out there is if you aren't blue, don't even try it. because people cant get over having to have something on their killboards to throw around.


Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that neural traders were sacrosanct and not to be harmed, and that your right to run around neutral space stocking markets was greater than my right to try and control the space I live in.

Excuse me while I go inform all of nullsec and lowsec and Thera.

Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
#18 - 2015-03-08 21:23:04 UTC
For future reference, starting posts with paraphrased bible quotes really isn't going to have the desired profound effect on this particular audience.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#19 - 2015-03-08 21:41:11 UTC
What makes you think Thera should be Jita 2.0?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#20 - 2015-03-09 00:44:53 UTC
So Thera is hellcamped? Really? That's very interesting and I suppose I'm not as surprised as I'd like to be.

You knew what you were signing up for when you went there though, so your choices really are to either do something about it or leave or hush.
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