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I really dislike 'a friend of mine' or 'a friend of a friend' type of hearsay posting, therefore, I felt compelled to chime in as an authority on the points mentioned in your post.

I'm a member of the Goonswarm Federation SRP team and I do have plenty of experience with what you are describing as "afktar ratting" in your post. As a matter of fact, I routinely push out advisory ratting fits for mass alliance wide adoption, taking into account considerations such as cost, longevity, survivability in PvP encounters and ease of training.

With those said, when it comes to afktar ratting, an individual in a system with desirable truesec (very rare) and the best type of anomalies (very limited even in best truesec systems) is looking at 17m ISK per tick with maximum skills after alliance taxes. Before taxes, the figure is close to 20m ISK depending on the specific corporation (and their specific tax rate). Rat drops per anomaly are worth 2-3 m ISK on normal conditions and salvage is practically isn't worth anything. (Picking up drops and salvaging will take up your time, affecting your income)

So, could you tell me how 51M ISK per hour on an account through anomaly bounties is an extravagant amount of income? One can make almost two times this figure running L4 missions in high-sec!

Such poverty out there in 0.0. How do you guys survive on your piddly 50m isk/hour direct isk handouts from CONCORD?

You should ask players older than you about Goon behavior. And while at it, take a good look at our coalition player base. Then reevaluate everything you've said, and you'll be closer to being factual. You are speculating wildly for the sake of your argument or posting with wishful thinking.

Most of the times, we scale. We scale both our real life money and time investments, as well as in game ISK. This probably explains why null only harbors financially successful players coming from hardcore backgrounds, rather than casual.

Some of us also divest the sources of our seed income. Personally I made my initial fortune with my alts on Factional Warfare in low-sec, of all the places. I used to do 350-400M ISK per hour on a single account depending on the control tier of the faction I was running for. With that kind of income, I quickly diversified even in that specific FW-related lowsec activity, and put another alt in the opposing faction, so that I could ride the tide of balance more consistently at higher tiers. I can still so that, with minimal risk, and make that money.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

I've spent my share of time in sov null (check my killboard from back in the day if you like, I've been in Scalding Pass, Tribute, and Immensia; as a member of The Unthinkables, early in their sovnull days, and Nulli starting midway through Tribute, though Nulli had rather **** leadership).

Mining alone doesnt represent "industry" either. PI is still viable based on your rebuttal, and theres nothing to prevent people from using a station for something other than its main objective. I can still manufacture in a Minmatar outpost, even though there arent as many slots as there are in an Amarr outpost. Theres also nothing preventing my from upgrading an outpost to be better at off specialization tasks, so I could upgrade a Minmatar outpost to do more manufacturing jobs.

So I dont see whats wrong with having other industrial activites help increase industrial index, especially since its so damn hard to get and keep it up as it is according to people who actually mine for a living.

All I'm doing is undermining your argument that null is poor as it currently is on a player-by-player basis, the screenshot is just the current version of an out-of-date google sheet which is all my acquaintance showed me when singing the virtues of a null life with the CFC sometime last year, I'm sure there's one with better XML trawling that has the right figures loading on every page instead of a bunch of errors.

It hopefully also dampened your colleague's doubts about the veracity of my previous comments since 'my friend' had access to 'your spreadsheet' and shared it 'with me'

Though I don't know about the numbers, I like the idea of trading vulnerability for some bonus.

Why? You don't need it to operate them in npc null. You don't need it to operate them in Empire. Why would you need it to operate them in sov null? What's the intent of the change, and how does the change promote the intended result?

Chyeah, and losing sov makes the whole tower or towers explode, or is it something more complicated that CCP would totally get around to implementing.

Goddamn, why all this talk about ISK per hour? Look, null isn't poor. Not from a top-down perspective or bottom-up individual incomes, subsidized (SRP) or unsubsidized. Players can make money, and do. There's no point derailing the conversation by trying to compare Isk/hour and risk/reward in null versus anywhere. It's a dead-end tangent. The bigger issue is related to the isk that can be generated in areas of higher population density. Players, corps, alliances all spead out now because to earn an income commensurate with nullsec, they are forced to spread out. Players don't want to login and try and earn in an overpopulated area. That just isn't a very efficient use of their time as PLAYERS of a video game. So what do they do? They spread out. And out. And out. The space in between goes generally unused. Maybe some moons or jump bridge/logistics routes, but a lot of unused space that is very low yielding even when upgraded.

Again, nobody is screaming poverty in nullsec, nor should they be. But if you want contraction, in terms of claimed space, create an environment that can adequately support higher population density rather than ghettos of working poor. And no I don't mean they would be literally poor. But the top third of all systems in nullsec can only support so many pilots. You want more to live there, then they're going to have to change that.

Perhaps, before all the debate about sov mechanics that will push back the nullsec empires, they should at least talk about their vision of nullsec from an economic standpoint and population standpoint. Because right now, in two consecutive major changes (jump nerf and now this) nullsec is only hearing the nerfs while being expected to hope for what will make it worth enduring at some later date. Sometimes, if you want the players to react in a certain way, a better way, a more positive way, you help them see both sides of your vision. Because right now, the only proven parts of the vision are negative for nullsec residents. Even the ever-hopeful Manfred Sideous sounds tired of telling everyone to stay hopeful. I'm sure it will all work out on the end. But the end is months away. Three for this change and who knows how many for the supposed Phase 3. That's a lot of time for players to be questioning whether or not it was worth it. Thwae changes are intended to reinvigorate nullsec. Perhaps it's worth spelling out some of that visions to the players sooner, even if the changes won't come until later. Psychologically it may just make the bitter pills a bit easier to swallow.

Now please, back to the debate on isk/hour running SOE missions vs Isktar ratting.