These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2741 - 2015-03-06 00:03:04 UTC
Harry Saq wrote:
Big three issues so far...

1. Inty Entosis
2. Prime Time
3. We have now gotten two sticks, where's the carrot (otherwise known as incentive to even live in null)

Did I leave anything out? That seems to be the primary feedback so far.


1. Way overblown
2. Viable complaint. This is an area reasonable arguements can be made in. Prime time is necessary to make the links work without endless sov trolling. The aussies can make their own alliances, all of which will be equally crippled by the quality of their internet and distance from the servers.
3. Potentially viable. People pay for the right to live in null, so it isnt that bad. Yet its still easier to make money running incursions (if you can get in a fleet).

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2742 - 2015-03-06 00:03:33 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Good point, It is likely for CCP to use existing mechanics for timers, but of course one should not assume. Confirmation would be good at some point. Certainly the warp restriction would only be logical if it lasted the full cycle, otherwise one could just shut down lock and warp away at any time, and CCP is unlikely to miss that exploit.


The timer thing could be a good "indirect" way to 'force' people using tankier ship to activate Entosis on structures, specially in "sensitiv" systems (ones that are supposed to be heavily defended)


Yes, quite true, using interceptors to attempt to capture a heavily defended system with active players, would not end well for the interceptor pilot. For such conquest attempts, a full support fleet will be required.

Occupied systems will be something requiring commitment.
Unoccupied and unwanted systems will be fairly simple to capture.

But of course in the main phase of the capture event, one best be prepared, as the initial lack of apparent defence may be purely bait to get you to commit to the main event, and come unprepared for the welcome you receive.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Cleanse Serce
La Forge.
Toilet Paper.
#2743 - 2015-03-06 00:06:51 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
you must not mine... or use a cyno

exsample:

When mining, if you have two beans on a single rock, and they both cycle, one starts its next cycle, the other finished and poped the rock, the frst beam will complete its cycle regaurdless of the target being there, untill such time as it finished and goes 'oh roid is gone' or you cancle it. even if you pull range, the cycle STILL goes to completetion, it just gives you no ore cause your out of range.

In the instance of a cyno, it doenslt matter when you stop they cycle, it will still finish, regaurdless of whats going on.

My guess is, you will be locked into your cycle like a seige, triage, cyno, bastion, etc.

you will have to stay in range for the cycle to finish. So you start cycle, 2m in reds show up, at 3m you burn out of range, at 5 the cycle ends but it would error out as you are now out of range. same with your lock breaking.

Think of it like a hack, if you don;t finish the hack you will have to start all over.


You must not PvP.

Cause when my target get's out of range, my web INSTANTLY deactivate its cycle. :)

But as i'm righting this i realise, that's a specific High module behaviour to end its cycle before it deactivates.
Since Entosis Link is a High slot module....


Interesting
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2744 - 2015-03-06 00:10:48 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
you must not mine... or use a cyno

exsample:

When mining, if you have two beans on a single rock, and they both cycle, one starts its next cycle, the other finished and poped the rock, the frst beam will complete its cycle regaurdless of the target being there, untill such time as it finished and goes 'oh roid is gone' or you cancle it. even if you pull range, the cycle STILL goes to completetion, it just gives you no ore cause your out of range.

In the instance of a cyno, it doenslt matter when you stop they cycle, it will still finish, regaurdless of whats going on.

My guess is, you will be locked into your cycle like a seige, triage, cyno, bastion, etc.

you will have to stay in range for the cycle to finish. So you start cycle, 2m in reds show up, at 3m you burn out of range, at 5 the cycle ends but it would error out as you are now out of range. same with your lock breaking.

Think of it like a hack, if you don;t finish the hack you will have to start all over.


You must not PvP.

Cause when my target get's out of range, my web INSTANTLY deactivate its cycle. :)

But as i'm righting this i realise, that's a specific High module behaviour to end its cycle before it deactivates.
Since Entosis Link is a High slot module....


Interesting


have pvp'd i just suck at it ;) but yea. I'm leanign that it will act more like a cyno, triage, seige, or even a a weapon that still fires even if the last one killed the target mid cycle.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2745 - 2015-03-06 00:11:40 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.

It's been raised before and no answer yet but it makes a mockery of the system if you can cap yourself out, have friendly ECM or just pull range to cancel out the effects


The module has to finish cycling before it can be deactivated. Just like a cyno, you light it, all your fuel is gone, yet you're still stuck fornthe full 10 minutes.

There's no reason module mechanics would change now.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2746 - 2015-03-06 00:14:01 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Would be interesting to know though if the cycle is still concidered cycling even though your our of range.

- Let's say, i activate a 5minutes long cycle Entosis.
- I see ennemies burning to me.
- I Pull range, get out of target range.
- I lose target.

Can I still warp off ?
Would've been good to know.

It's been raised before and no answer yet but it makes a mockery of the system if you can cap yourself out, have friendly ECM or just pull range to cancel out the effects


The module has to finish cycling before it can be deactivated. Just like a cyno, you light it, all your fuel is gone, yet you're still stuck fornthe full 10 minutes.

There's no reason module mechanics would change now.


It literally would have no reason to exist as a restriction, if it behaved any other way.
If it was released by accident, it would be corrected by the first available patch.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#2747 - 2015-03-06 00:17:35 UTC
A carrot for the stick? What's the carrot currently?

Some make it sound like null is just a vast land of lower-than-hisec income with logistical nightmares on top. If so, then why are people out there now? And in such vast numbers in the coalitions?

Shouldn't the carrot just simply be the very same carrot that exists currently? There's gotta be one right, to have the alliance/coalition numbers null enjoys over other player entities?

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)

Vyl Vit
#2748 - 2015-03-06 00:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Isn't it so like this current playerbase to point the finger at the mod and completely overlook the greater dynamics this new SOV change will bring? Why is this? The new mod itself is little more than a pointing finger. The discussion is all about sawing off the pointing finger, or keeping the pointing finger from being sawed off, or why can just anybody point the finger? None of it is a lively discussion about how this change will affect two things that have plagued the majority of New Eden for years - blue blobs and blue donuts. Under Band of Brothers, a huge section of the map was in stasis forcing players onto a small section of null sec space. Under the Blue Donut, all that happens in null sec is people rent from other people.

The majority of items in the game just aren't being used, and in both instances of "natural" game play, the "natural" result seems to be (once again) freezing up the majority of New Eden. This certainly isn't gameplay. DIddling around with one or two elements without pulling the entirety of EVE's features into play isn't gameplay either. It's diddling around. At last with this new approach there's a significant potential to pull EVE into the game of EVE. People who are focusing on the mod, and trying to find ways to circumvent things like downtime visa vis prime time will miss the boat entirely. People, and CEOs/Alliance leaderships that focus on all the aspects of the game - the development of systems, the sovereignty panel, the many and varied skills of the group now disparagingly called "carebears" WILL WIN.

So, yes. Do continue your bogged down in minutia discussion of the module, and how someone might circumvent the intended with the clever. However, understand in so doing you're demonstrating how little you've bothered to learn about the wider game of EVE. It's like obsessing on the queen's hair-do and not developing a strong pawn game. And, as anyone who knows chess will tell you, the game is won with the pawn game, not the queen.

I look forward to seeing the hindparts of The Blue Donut as it disappears over the horizon looking for another game to smother. I'm even looking forward to seeing the departure of people whose imaginations and true strategic abilities only amount to that. I'm going to enjoy ganking becoming an annoyance (as it rightly is) and emergent gameplay suddenly becoming playing EVE again!

I appreciate everyone's effort to support our game through this forum. I only suggest those who are fixated on a module try expanding your understanding of this game we play by taking a look at the map, and the other panels that seem to never get used. They are going to be the central focus of the game now - as it should be.

"The battle is won before it is fought." -Sun Tzu's way of saying "know what you're doing."-

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2749 - 2015-03-06 00:22:44 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
A carrot for the stick? What's the carrot currently?

Some make it sound like null is just a vast land of lower-than-hisec income with logistical nightmares on top. If so, then why are people out there now? And in such vast numbers in the coalitions?

Shouldn't the carrot just simply be the very same carrot that exists currently? There's gotta be one right, to have the alliance/coalition numbers null enjoys over other player entities?


People might be out in null but that doesn't mean they earn their isk out there. Income for your average line member is indeed poor in null when compared to highsec. About the only reward I get out in null for defending our space is fights and docking rights.
Cancel Align NOW
The Distillery
Commonwealth Vanguard
#2750 - 2015-03-06 00:23:41 UTC
I generally like the upcoming changes I have two areas of reservation:

1. The Prime Timer could seriously limit sov interaction. It would make sense for pilots to migrate to the alliance who is dominant in their OP time. It also makes sense for alliances to ensure their neighbours have polar opposite prime times.

2. Where is the incentive for a regular Joe in a small corp to join the sovereignty game: Outside of the major blocs risk vs reward is askew.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2751 - 2015-03-06 00:27:56 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Isn't it so like this current playerbase to point the finger at the mod and completely overlook the greater dynamics this new SOV change will bring? Why is this? The new mod itself is little more than a pointing finger. The discussion is all about sawing off the pointing finger, or keeping the pointing finger from being sawed off, or why can just anybody point the finger? None of it is a lively discussion about how this change will affect two things that have plagued the majority of New Eden for years - blue blobs and blue donuts. Under Band of Brothers, a huge section of the map was in stasis forcing players onto a small section of null sec space. Under the Blue Donut, all that happens in null sec is people rent from other people.

The majority of items in the game just aren't being used, and in both instances of "natural" game play, the "natural" result seems to be (once again) freezing up the majority of New Eden. This certainly isn't gameplay. DIddling around with one or two elements without pulling the entirety of EVE's features into play isn't gameplay either. It's diddling around. At last with this new approach there's a significant potential to pull EVE into the game of EVE. People who are focusing on the mod, and trying to find ways to circumvent things like downtime visa vis prime time will miss the boat entirely. People, and CEOs/Alliance leaderships that focus on all the aspects of the game - the development of systems, the sovereignty panel, the many and varied skills of the group now disparagingly called "carebears" WILL WIN.

So, yes. Do continue your bogged down in minutia discussion of the module, and how someone might circumvent the intended with the clever. However, understand in so doing you're demonstrating how little you've bothered to learn about the wider game of EVE. It's like obsessing on the queen's hair do and not developing a strong pawn game. And, as anyone who knows chess will tell you, the game is won with the pawn game, not the queen.

I look forward to seeing the hindparts of The Blue Donut as it disappears over the horizon looking for another game to smother. I'm even looking forward to seeing the departure of people whose imaginations and true strategic abilities only amount to that. I'm going to enjoy ganking becoming an annoyance (as it rightly is) and emergent gameplay suddenly becoming playing EVE again!

I appreciate everyone's effort to support our game through this forum. I only suggest those who are fixated on a module try expanding your understanding of this game we play by taking a look at the map, and the other panels that seem to never get used. They are going to be the central focus of the game now - as it should be.

"The battle is won before it is fought." -Sun Tzu's way of saying "know what you're doing."-

Listen to this person

our 0.0 dream is over.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#2752 - 2015-03-06 00:29:02 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Isn't it so like this current playerbase to point the finger at the mod and completely overlook the greater dynamics this new SOV change will bring? Why is this? The new mod itself is little more than a pointing finger. The discussion is all about sawing off the pointing finger, or keeping the pointing finger from being sawed off, or why can just anybody point the finger? None of it is a lively discussion about how this change will affect two things that have plagued the majority of New Eden for years - blue blobs and blue donuts. Under Band of Brothers, a huge section of the map was in stasis forcing players onto a small section of null sec space. Under the Blue Donut, all that happens in null sec is people rent from other people.

The majority of items in the game just aren't being used, and in both instances of "natural" game play, the "natural" result seems to be (once again) freezing up the majority of New Eden. This certainly isn't gameplay. DIddling around with one or two elements without pulling the entirety of EVE's features into play isn't gameplay either. It's diddling around. At last with this new approach there's a significant potential to pull EVE into the game of EVE. People who are focusing on the mod, and trying to find ways to circumvent things like downtime visa vis prime time will miss the boat entirely. People, and CEOs/Alliance leaderships that focus on all the aspects of the game - the development of systems, the sovereignty panel, the many and varied skills of the group now disparagingly called "carebears" WILL WIN.

So, yes. Do continue your bogged down in minutia discussion of the module, and how someone might circumvent the intended with the clever. However, understand in so doing you're demonstrating how little you've bothered to learn about the wider game of EVE. It's like obsessing on the queen's hair-do and not developing a strong pawn game. And, as anyone who knows chess will tell you, the game is won with the pawn game, not the queen.

I look forward to seeing the hindparts of The Blue Donut as it disappears over the horizon looking for another game to smother. I'm even looking forward to seeing the departure of people whose imaginations and true strategic abilities only amount to that. I'm going to enjoy ganking becoming an annoyance (as it rightly is) and emergent gameplay suddenly becoming playing EVE again!

I appreciate everyone's effort to support our game through this forum. I only suggest those who are fixated on a module try expanding your understanding of this game we play by taking a look at the map, and the other panels that seem to never get used. They are going to be the central focus of the game now - as it should be.

"The battle is won before it is fought." -Sun Tzu's way of saying "know what you're doing."-
Hear hear.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2753 - 2015-03-06 00:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
baltec1 wrote:
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
A carrot for the stick? What's the carrot currently?

Some make it sound like null is just a vast land of lower-than-hisec income with logistical nightmares on top. If so, then why are people out there now? And in such vast numbers in the coalitions?

Shouldn't the carrot just simply be the very same carrot that exists currently? There's gotta be one right, to have the alliance/coalition numbers null enjoys over other player entities?


People might be out in null but that doesn't mean they earn their isk out there. Income for your average line member is indeed poor in null when compared to highsec. About the only reward I get out in null for defending our space is fights and docking rights.


If it is neccessary for people to have to travel to, or have alts in areas other than your home area, to earn enough to function then every area of space should support rectifying that. It is an entirely valid goal.

How one gets that iformation out in front of CCP and the wider community, is a harder challenge.

For a long time people believed low class wormholes were bathed in isk, and everyone was rich! Until the truth was shown, nothing happened.

But Our CSM gave detailed information as to the reality, and showed the whole community his data, that he spent weeks collating and sourcing. And everyone realised the magnitude of the situation.

And CCP were wonderful, in fast, simple imaginative, fixes, to resolve the issue. They will no doubt do a wider rebalance at a later Date to fine tune it. There are naturally still some issues to address.

I hope your representatives can do something similar, and your needs will be met. Fairly, and equitably.
A healthy nullsec, is of value to all, wherever we live. The same applies to all areas, all deserve a living source of income to support A healthy and vibrant EVE

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2754 - 2015-03-06 00:36:39 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Isn't it so like this current playerbase to point the finger at the mod and completely overlook the greater dynamics this new SOV change will bring? Why is this? The new mod itself is little more than a pointing finger. The discussion is all about sawing off the pointing finger, or keeping the pointing finger from being sawed off, or why can just anybody point the finger? None of it is a lively discussion about how this change will affect two things that have plagued the majority of New Eden for years - blue blobs and blue donuts. Under Band of Brothers, a huge section of the map was in stasis forcing players onto a small section of null sec space. Under the Blue Donut, all that happens in null sec is people rent from other people.

The majority of items in the game just aren't being used, and in both instances of "natural" game play, the "natural" result seems to be (once again) freezing up the majority of New Eden. This certainly isn't gameplay. DIddling around with one or two elements without pulling the entirety of EVE's features into play isn't gameplay either. It's diddling around. At last with this new approach there's a significant potential to pull EVE into the game of EVE. People who are focusing on the mod, and trying to find ways to circumvent things like downtime visa vis prime time will miss the boat entirely. People, and CEOs/Alliance leaderships that focus on all the aspects of the game - the development of systems, the sovereignty panel, the many and varied skills of the group now disparagingly called "carebears" WILL WIN.

So, yes. Do continue your bogged down in minutia discussion of the module, and how someone might circumvent the intended with the clever. However, understand in so doing you're demonstrating how little you've bothered to learn about the wider game of EVE. It's like obsessing on the queen's hair do and not developing a strong pawn game. And, as anyone who knows chess will tell you, the game is won with the pawn game, not the queen.

I look forward to seeing the hindparts of The Blue Donut as it disappears over the horizon looking for another game to smother. I'm even looking forward to seeing the departure of people whose imaginations and true strategic abilities only amount to that. I'm going to enjoy ganking becoming an annoyance (as it rightly is) and emergent gameplay suddenly becoming playing EVE again!

I appreciate everyone's effort to support our game through this forum. I only suggest those who are fixated on a module try expanding your understanding of this game we play by taking a look at the map, and the other panels that seem to never get used. They are going to be the central focus of the game now - as it should be.

"The battle is won before it is fought." -Sun Tzu's way of saying "know what you're doing."-


Question here is, will this change the meta? Is this something that will break the power of coalitions like the CFC? I doubt it. I really do. CFC for example is using marauding squadrons themselves to put certain regions under pressure to aid "friendlies" or the enemy of the enemy. PL, N3 and CFC do have the resources and the isks to get enough mercs going around and rf'ing regions, then put in a major force to secure an area.

I'm not sure there's even a change that could bring down a well organized medium business like the CFC, people who think that entities like Mordu's Angels (which I love btw., keep it up) can take down the CFC are dreaming. This new mechanic still promotes numbers, the first weeks might be a bit of a chaos until people figure out how to use it / defend it, as usual.

Is it so much of a change not to have CTA for a 1h structure grind or to hop 5x systems and secure nodes? The focus on the mod is due to the fact that the entire sov mechanic is based on that mod. The way it works and what's needed to fit it / the effects of that mod are crucial in the way people are going to use it. And guys like you who dumb down 140 pages of discussion to "trololol you only focus on the mod" are as ignorant as they claim the people to be in here. I think it's almost as clever as dumbing down sov to a highslot module (presumably able to be fitted on a frig). On the brightside, CCP can save some workload on the supercapital rebalance, nobody is going to use them anymore after this and the lack of fighter assign. Well, maybe for a thunderdome.
Tamdra Beebort
Terrestrial Trading Consortium of New Eden
#2755 - 2015-03-06 00:40:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:


And you were talking about doing this across the whole of the south, that's 40 minutes for every structure in the south of the map...


That we can hit all at once. Under the current plans we could attack all of nullsec in a single weekend.



I don't want to be rude because I haven't been in null for a few years but if you are out hitting all of the south then who is watching your back yard? Invading the south for a few days would let any frig hole that opens in your area dump potentially hundreds of the same kind of E-link frigs to do the same thing to your SOV.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that we're moving to the extremes of the arguments to expose loop holes in mechanics but if you are busy harassing others in a different area doesn't that allow others to do the same thing to you? I agree that E-linked interceptors may be too easily used as a trolling ship but at the same time a larger ship fitted to deal with ceptors with a Entosis mod could be use to defend. At least a well tanked ship with its own Entosis link would stop the interceptor till a more robust fleet arrived or the aggressor simply gave up or was destroyed.

The goal of these new mechanics are to encourage fights, keep pilots active and quell stagnation. When pilots are out trolling systems causing people to undock and defend their assets then that, to me, means that the mechanic is working as intended. If the defender doesn't defend then they should move to an area that doesn't use the SOV mechanic or to a system with a higher sec status. If pilots do undock and defend then the mechanic has worked.

Again, I understand the underlying premise of the argument but at the same time I don't think going to extremes is always the best way to drive the conversation in a productive direction. I like how the new mechanics look on paper but I do think they need some adjustments, they are conflict drivers and they seem to combat apex forces, structure grinds, n+1 gameplay and stagnation by giving small groups the ability to fight/harass larger groups using hit and run tactics and guerrilla warfare. Defiantly not perfect but moving in the right direction.
Serene Repose
#2756 - 2015-03-06 00:47:19 UTC
The idea is, you're not going to sit on a majority of the map all week, then show up on Saturday all puffed up like Henry VIII. It means you'll only be able to hold what you can actively defend and operate. Yes, some people's inflated holdings are going to shrink to real tiny and boy are they gonna sob.

It'll not be, "But we were holding more than we could manage!"

It'll be "Waaaaaah! The "change" is OP!"

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
#2757 - 2015-03-06 00:48:05 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:

I'm not sure there's even a change that could bring down a well organized medium business like the CFC


CCP must make that scale of fat entities unmanageable by nerfing jump fatigue for logistic again (forcing localized industry and localized market) and reducing the alliance size on the map with exponential sov fee.

Outposts must be destroyable.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2758 - 2015-03-06 00:49:05 UTC
Tamdra Beebort wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:


And you were talking about doing this across the whole of the south, that's 40 minutes for every structure in the south of the map...


That we can hit all at once. Under the current plans we could attack all of nullsec in a single weekend.



I don't want to be rude because I haven't been in null for a few years but if you are out hitting all of the south then who is watching your back yard? Invading the south for a few days would let any frig hole that opens in your area dump potentially hundreds of the same kind of E-link frigs to do the same thing to your SOV.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that we're moving to the extremes of the arguments to expose loop holes in mechanics but if you are busy harassing others in a different area doesn't that allow others to do the same thing to you? I agree that E-linked interceptors may be too easily used as a trolling ship but at the same time a larger ship fitted to deal with ceptors with a Entosis mod could be use to defend. At least a well tanked ship with its own Entosis link would stop the interceptor till a more robust fleet arrived or the aggressor simply gave up or was destroyed.

The goal of these new mechanics are to encourage fights, keep pilots active and quell stagnation. When pilots are out trolling systems causing people to undock and defend their assets then that, to me, means that the mechanic is working as intended. If the defender doesn't defend then they should move to an area that doesn't use the SOV mechanic or to a system with a higher sec status. If pilots do undock and defend then the mechanic has worked.

Again, I understand the underlying premise of the argument but at the same time I don't think going to extremes is always the best way to drive the conversation in a productive direction. I like how the new mechanics look on paper but I do think they need some adjustments, they are conflict drivers and they seem to combat apex forces, structure grinds, n+1 gameplay and stagnation by giving small groups the ability to fight/harass larger groups using hit and run tactics and guerrilla warfare. Defiantly not perfect but moving in the right direction.


There isnt anything extreme about it.

Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2759 - 2015-03-06 00:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
A carrot for the stick? What's the carrot currently?

Some make it sound like null is just a vast land of lower-than-hisec income with logistical nightmares on top. If so, then why are people out there now? And in such vast numbers in the coalitions?

Shouldn't the carrot just simply be the very same carrot that exists currently? There's gotta be one right, to have the alliance/coalition numbers null enjoys over other player entities?


That question gets asked a lot. It's backwards. The question isn't why are people renting, the question should be 'why aren't alliances using the space they have rather than renting it out'.

and no one said you can't make isk in null. You can, the point is that people who actually know what they are doing make the same isk elsewhere. Null would be much better if the people who take it could use it. But as it is, lots of 'landlord alliance' pilots use out of null alts to make isk.

I've told other folks this, the desire to see a better risk reward balance in null isn't about bring people out of high sec, lowsec/fw or wormholes, it's about bringing our ALTS out of those places lol. If you live in any other part of new eden its easy to use that sectors resources to 'live' there (ie wormhole residents , low seccers/FW pilots and high sec residents don't have to have alts in other places to maintain themselves, but in null if you want to keep up the tempo of pvp you usually do).

Here's a video of a guy using a cheap ship in low sec to make 3 times what a pirate battleship in null anoms would make in an hour.
There is no way to make that kind of isk per hour in null in anything less than a Super Carrier. I rolled a Naga alt just to do low sec lvl 4s lol, have lost one naga in a year.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2760 - 2015-03-06 00:57:57 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Question here is, will this change the meta? Is this something that will break the power of coalitions like the CFC? I doubt it. I really do. CFC for example is using marauding squadrons themselves to put certain regions under pressure to aid "friendlies" or the enemy of the enemy. PL, N3 and CFC do have the resources and the isks to get enough mercs going around and rf'ing regions, then put in a major force to secure an area.


I'm sure CFC and all the other large coalitions will adapt and survive. This change will make them reconsider their holdings and condense and retract releasing idle space for new hands to grab at. New hands that won't need to own OR risk a supercap fleet to do so - but they'll need to be damn tenacious to put up with the constant kerb stomping the big kids are gonna want to do to them for having the audacity to steal food from their tables.

And once the renter alliances see someone with some balls doing this, maybe even nibbling at their little bit of space to do so, then...?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager