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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1521 - 2015-03-04 16:38:22 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

hes doe s not get the cocnept that this is the exaclty effect that CCP wants. That huge power blocs forego the unused space.

this is likely, yes

however people keep assuming that it means someone else will move in and get to live there, and keep thinking it means they finally get to have a system for their corp of three semi-literate drunken toddlers

what they do not seem to grasp is that just because i don't feel like going to the effort of owning, say, providence doesn't mean i don't feel like smashing anyone who does try to own it in the face and farming them so brutally it makes PL's treatment of HERO look downright loving

why on earth would we allow you to live when you can't defend yourself and will probably whine impotently about how we're not playing fair and attacking is so hideously overpowered it will be a walk in the park
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1522 - 2015-03-04 16:38:34 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1523 - 2015-03-04 16:40:24 UTC
Hey all, Fozzie hasn't denied on Twitter that the module doesn't apply at the end of cycle. That would explain why it seems to be possible to break lock and cycle through various means.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1524 - 2015-03-04 16:41:26 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1525 - 2015-03-04 16:42:51 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


The entosis thing should be restrcited from nullified ships. Meaning you can put one on a t3 unless you use the nullifier sub. People can still put them on the rest of frig hulls but not ceptors.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1526 - 2015-03-04 16:43:29 UTC
Some interesting discussion and points made here. I am of course ignoring every post that just says "its bad" but rather the ones that explain problems.

I am personally interested in sov mechanics from a game theory perspective. EVE is very unique in that the devs have a very hard time doing anything that will "work" because as people have pointed out, in a sand box we do what ever the **** we want. And unlike other MMOs we are permitted to do that (like massive alliances that you just don't get in other MMOs).

I like the idea that holding a large swath of space is hard without raw numbers. I also like that shooting stuff is about shooting other ships, rather than millions of EHP of something that doesn't move. Freeport sounds like fun, as a WH Nullsec diving could be even more fun.

Currently the biggest complaints seem to be TZ stuff. And we already don't like cepter meta, so don't make more. ( We as in the royal we). And last but not least. Why bother with Sov.

My biggest issue i would have, is why bother. Really rats/mission/mining something got to turn to gold to make it worth while. I mean not everyone is going to want to build supers. As far as i can tell, there really is not much to make sov anything more than a "you see us on the map" kind of epean.



AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
MajorScrewup
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1527 - 2015-03-04 16:43:37 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
There seems to be a lot of people on this comments section and on the Mittani blogsite saying there is no reason/s to hold null-sec sovereignty. Apparently at the moment there are reasons to hold null-sec sovereignty as the likes of GSF etc still exist.

'Better' ores.
'Better' ice.
Titans and 'big fights'.
Good ratting opportunities and officer module drops.
Level five missions.
'Better' Incursions.
Moon mining - loads of revenue.
Opportunities to set up renting.
Working in 'blue' doughnut areas that are theoretically the safest places in New Eden.

All this stuff and much more that I can't think of is in null-sec and will still be in null-sec after any changes have been made. So what the **** is all this whinging about ? Seems to be some complaining about people possibly being able to disrupt or 'grief' null-sec sovereignty with no clear intention to hold onto the sovereignty they are attacking. **** happens my friends. It was all fine and dandy when null-sec communities took over high sec POCOs and tried to charge silly taxes. You have to take the rough with the smooth.


Titans and big fights aren't restricted to null sec
Incursions are better in lo-sec as you have the chance of revenant bpc
level 5 missions in null sec - not sure as i don't mission run, but seems wrong
There are moons in lo-sec too that are good
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1528 - 2015-03-04 16:44:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


The entosis thing should be restrcited from nullified ships. Meaning you can put one on a t3 unless you use the nullifier sub. People can still put them on the rest of frig hulls but not ceptors.

Or putting it on costs you nullification?

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1529 - 2015-03-04 16:44:52 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


And the interceptors pose no threat as long as you aren't an absentee landlord.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#1530 - 2015-03-04 16:45:01 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.


Agree with your first statement, confused on the second. Why?

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1531 - 2015-03-04 16:45:37 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


A person from FA started with the suggestion of requiring a Marauder or carrier to do this, frankly that is stupid, the entire concept is guerilla war, in other words you don't really want that space but I do, I keep nibbling at it until you get bored and ignore me apart from coming in and smashing me to bits every month or so so I have to rebuild, which also answers your other comment.

You liked Waltreipers didn't you, you liked farming IRC didn't you, then what's your issue?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Martin Vanzyl
EVE University
Ivy League
#1532 - 2015-03-04 16:46:27 UTC
Entosis Link ranges are stupidly large.

Scale the Entosis Link range. The smaller ship you fit it to, the less range it has.
Frig = 5 - 15km
Cruiser = 15 - 30km
BC = 30 - 40km
BS = 50 - 60
Cap = 60 < ....

Etc. Not only will this make a 'logical sense', small comm array on smaller ship means it needs to be closer to link with the appropriate strength to the station's systems etc, it also forces the attackers in closer, where they can be engaged by defenders. Another solution could be to limit the Entosis to BS, cap and super hulls.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1533 - 2015-03-04 16:47:12 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues

If you can't even get an atron to sit at 0 to defend your sov you have no business holding that sov.

Once you get your own frigs there then there's gonna be every chance of a proper fight escalating - or the intys just move on to find some undefended space.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1534 - 2015-03-04 16:47:23 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
And the interceptors pose no threat as long as you aren't an absentee landlord.

the interceptors force you to go to the effort of reacting to that interceptor, at which point it buzzes away and starts hitting a system ten jumps away (because it is a sub 2s warping nullified ship) causing a great deal of effort to be expended on the part of the defenders at no cost or risk to the pilot

if it's actually an absentee landlord your t1 battlecruiser is at no risk: but you're terrified of using any ship that could actually get caught and killed if you miscalculate.

if you aren't willing to risk a single ship when you're generating timers you should be in highsec cowering under CONCORD protection
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1535 - 2015-03-04 16:47:47 UTC
Benilopax wrote:
Are CCP and the CSM gonna wait until page 100 to acknowledge anything written here?


LOL if you think the CSM has any weight in these decisions.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1536 - 2015-03-04 16:48:50 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Once you get your own frigs there then there's gonna be every chance of a proper fight escalating - or the intys just move on to find some undefended space.


there is no chance of a fight with one side in interceptors escalating because interceptors don't take fights

they are cowardships which is why the only people legitimately supporting interceptors being able to create timers are people who want to be in the big leagues but are terrified of ever losing anything so they need their cowardship so they can flee in terror as soon as something lands on grid
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1537 - 2015-03-04 16:49:37 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
And the interceptors pose no threat as long as you aren't an absentee landlord.

the interceptors force you to go to the effort of reacting to that interceptor, at which point it buzzes away and starts hitting a system ten jumps away (because it is a sub 2s warping nullified ship) causing a great deal of effort to be expended on the part of the defenders at no cost or risk to the pilot
You imply that you have to cover a 10 system wide area with just one defensive fleet?

That doesn't sound like very active use of your space.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Sael Va'Tauri
Morgan Industry
Silent Infinity
#1538 - 2015-03-04 16:50:52 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
I am thinking the Troll Laser needs to be restricted to a heavier ship such as a battle cruiser or above.

Love the tears here...great work CCP.

Definitely not. If you can't respond to a frigate fleet, you don't live locally enough.

Restricting it to larger hulls completely undermines the concept of using your space.

why should you get to contest sov without even putting a t1 battlecruiser at risk? the issue isn't being unable to respond to an interceptor fleet, it's that an interceptor fleet has no risk whatsoever to its pilots

if you're too much of a coward to even risk a single t1 battlecruiser you have no business in the big leagues


between 250 to 500 Grid would actually be a pretty good place for the Link. You could drop that on T1 cruisers and T1 BCs if you forgo either some weapons or tank on them, and you wouldn't be able to cram them on anything smaller. A BS would be able to fit them without too much worry about compromise as long as you can spare the high slot.

If someone isn't defending their space, you could roll in with a couple of Mallers and cap out a system pretty quickly, with low risk. However, if someone is defending their space, you're not going to be able to run away terribly fast while also maintaining a low risk setup.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1539 - 2015-03-04 16:51:12 UTC
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Jack Hayson wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:


Anyways, http://i.imgur.com/qaDmPO3.png one semi-good warpin and dead Svipul.


The thing is, even if you land DIRECTLY ontop of the svipul through some kind of insane miracle, its burning at 11KM/s, which means its out of your scram range in a single tick, it takes an absolute minimum of 2 ticks (seconds) to lock something and activate a mod.

The best thing i can imagine is just hitting it with a 60KM web after a lucky warpin, but even then it can STILL burn out of range of any recon ship capable of fitting the multiple webs its going to take to kill it.

That thing has an align time of 28 seconds - you don't need to tackle it. (would be pointed by the ento thingy anyway)
Just probe and warp on top of it with a long range ship. You'll then have a low EHP target with a 750m sig radius burning in a more or less straight line away from you.



how exactly are you going to warp to a ship going that fast, it takes 10 seconds minimum to probe,warpin, lock target, and activate mod, by that time its already 100km away, no longer in a straight line, so still impossible to track.

and the 28 second align time is with mwd on, just shut it off to warp out.

(and its 300 sig radius)


correct on the sigRAd. 300m. However, any ship moving directly away from the firing ship will have exactly 0 trasnversal. With a 300m sigRad, the Svipul will evaporate.

Or you can just put an Ibis on the TCU/IHUB/whichever and spam local pr0n when you turn on your own link, thus stopping all capture progress. Or you could bring something bigger, like, say... a Marauder?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Kah'Les
hirr
Pandemic Horde
#1540 - 2015-03-04 16:52:55 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Kah'Les wrote:
Some systems are only worth their moons meaning there are no players in them doing active things, hence most systems in null are empty.

Exactly, those ones are gonna get flipped every 2 days by bored roaming inty gangs, the actively used space can be defended.

Working as intended?



hes doe s not get the cocnept that this is the exaclty effect that CCP wants. That huge power blocs forego the unused space.


Yes, I see you guys want this. But what I see is a lot of small corps being forced to pay "protection" ISK for their systems or their SOV lvl get rested and iHUB destoyed. I see cloaky campers having a even bigger affect on SOV mechanics lowering value of systems so they are easyier to conqer. And good luck you weekened warriors who take SOV and then lose it in 48 house to a big power bloc. I believe this sov change is weaker than the one already in place, this is not the change everyon is waiting for.

This Fozzie SOV (FW v2.0) is just at the moment filled with glitchy mechanics.