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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1321 - 2015-03-04 14:01:39 UTC
AlexKent wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
AlexKent wrote:
Entosis Link should only fit to Bcruiser/Bship and above to prevent abuse. It will also give people a reason to fly these over cruiser and frigate hulls.

P.S.

RIP capital warfare, not sure if a bad or good thing.


what you claim is abuse is actually the whole point of the system.
You seem to have missed the devblog.


If anyone in an uncatchable ship (interceptor) can mess with your sov system there is no point in actually holding sov in the first place.

And before GRRR Goons comment, imagine 4 fleets of 250 man people in interceptors you can't catch messing with your space. It will become so frustrating you will either unsub or just move to NPC or lowsec. Not because someone is attacking your space, but because there is no real counter to it and you will be forced to repeat defending your nodes each day every day.


Making these modules fit to bigger ship hulls actually generates a fight and give meaning to the already useless battlecruisers and battleships, maybe even blap dreads.



Easily solvable by LIVING in the damm system.

THere willb eno point into FAKE HOLDING sov.. that you do not use. A ceptor that cannot move for 5 min can be killed even by a HAULER!!

If you cannot do that.. you do not deserve to keep the system!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Worrff
Enterprise Holdings
#1322 - 2015-03-04 14:01:42 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post.


Good work, man

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.
Black Ambulance
#1323 - 2015-03-04 14:02:13 UTC
Agent Known wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


That's what I love about your PFR guys. You actually have a pair, unlike Provi.



Why thank you!

One of our campers is a player called "deffently not a cyno alt" who is a know Titan alt

Sadly he never brings his toys to play. I though he would since we broke our dreads the other day.


It's funny how people complain about AFK cloakers in null where you have the wormhole bears who can't complain about those 5 cloaky proteii (proteus...es?) watching your every move.

Solution to AFK cloaking: remove local from sov null. Done! Pirate


REMOVE LOCAL from errywhere !! null / HS :)
Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#1324 - 2015-03-04 14:02:19 UTC
lemme tell u whats gonna happen...

there will be FW like fights in null sec.. no more big fights.. frig fights every where...

what they dont understand ppl coe top play this game coz they heard of big fights.. thats what make story .. not small fights.

small fights just look cool thats about it..

this game wil become WOW pretty soon.. thats where CCP leading us.


Kah'Les
hirr
Pandemic Horde
#1325 - 2015-03-04 14:03:30 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
So someone with 100 titans can jump them in and initiate a sov change instantly/quickly, while the newbies have to do whatever it is you want them to do instead of using the entosis link to grind it out up to 40 minutes?


Yes! You will still have a defensive timer that anyone can show up too. 100 titans alone can't kill any sub cap. The game is not supposed to be fair, noobs are not supposed to be able to do the same as a long time veteran.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1326 - 2015-03-04 14:03:39 UTC
So months of working on ideas for sov and we get an inflated version of faction warfare.....go figure.
Cr Turist
Arcana Noctis
#1327 - 2015-03-04 14:03:43 UTC
Jessy Andersteen wrote:
Cr Turist wrote:
i dont know about everyone else but i guess my question can be broken down into two parts about this patch.

1. if you remove structure grinds and reasons to call CTA's how do you plan on giving a reason for large scale fleet engagements? like it or not a large number of players actually play eve for these kind of ops and you are in essence taking those TIMERS away. yeah we will have POS's but i mean really if your not having a epic fleet fight in defense of your own space or not getting to kick butt with your bros kicking the teeth in of some lowly chumps whos space you want then why log in. to go 60 jumps on a roam and watch 15 cepters fly by you and only killing the one guy who didn't pay attention to his intel channel?

Large scale fleet are boring for people and hard for the servers. It have an important COST for CCP and it's unplayable for people: too many lags and each infrastucture improvement just increase the size of the large scale engagement and didn't resolv the lag and stability issue.

CCP just want less large scale engagment. And people just want less large scales engagment.



ummm im pritty sure 90% of N3 Prob 75% of CFC and ALL of Brave would not agree with you. but since you come from such a rich large scale pvp alliance i see how you could have a opinion. WAIT
suicide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1328 - 2015-03-04 14:04:41 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
After thinking about the proposed system a little more.

(1) Perhaps instead of setting the vulnerability timer alliance wide allow setting it at constellation / system level.

Reason being that one possible scenario for utilizing this system is that alliance gets as many systems as he has corporations and every corporation is responsible of living in some system - that way if alliance has multiple timezones or different tz corporations it would allow corporation living in particular system or constellation to be "vulnerable" in their prime time.

(2) Possibility for an alliance to increase the population gap for a given system if you are pushing for more condensed corporations.

One possibility would be "inviting" a agent of some kind into a system (in space or in station) which would provide missions to the visitors. Excact mechanics of how to invent is not important, be it then some kind of deployable structure bought from a LP store or some kind of different mechanics altogether. Agent system is only pve system that scales linearly with the population.


I think 1) is an excellent idea because it will allow content for other timezones. We are legitimately having people leaving for EUTZ alliances because of their primetime gameplay needs will not be met.

2) Is an excellent start. If a corporation that owns a station has sufficiently high standings with an NPC corporation then perhaps they could invite in an agent. There needs to be a variety of things that increases the population density of nullsec, not just missions but in relation to mining, NPCing, exploring, and everything else.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1329 - 2015-03-04 14:05:02 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
A ceptor that cannot move for 5 min can be killed even by a HAULER!!


There is no point whatsoever, where they said the new module will stop a ship from MOVING. There are similarities to the bastion module, but the two are not identical!
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1330 - 2015-03-04 14:06:14 UTC
Bezdar22 wrote:
lemme tell u whats gonna happen...

there will be FW like fights in null sec.. no more big fights.. frig fights every where...

what they dont understand ppl coe top play this game coz they heard of big fights.. thats what make story .. not small fights.

small fights just look cool thats about it..

this game wil become WOW pretty soon.. thats where CCP leading us.



EVE is already dependent on fantasy and magic imaginary physics so calm down. You're already playing WoW.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
eiedu
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#1331 - 2015-03-04 14:06:32 UTC
I feel that the need for a serious commitment to contest sovereignty is not present in this design. Apart from that, setting a prime-time removes the need for alliances to have members form multiple timezones and alliances won't be able to contest anything out of their own prime-time.

I think this is the sort of design project you'd want to be talking to people who live in nullsec every single step of the way. I don't know what process you guys at CCP use for designing, but this particular project calls for constant user input and review.
Commander Zakarygobcev
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1332 - 2015-03-04 14:08:09 UTC
It's Eve, Eve has alays been about the numbers and synergy, big alliance win thats how **** goes, a risk adverse sov grind would be a dumb idea, with even dumber repercussions one the ones who live there, can't wait to see if CCP are determined to kill this game.
Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#1333 - 2015-03-04 14:08:24 UTC
eiedu wrote:
I feel that the need for a serious commitment to contest sovereignty is not present in this design. Apart from that, setting a prime-time removes the need for alliances to have members form multiple timezones and alliances won't be able to contest anything out of their own prime-time.

I think this is the sort of design project you'd want to be talking to people who live in nullsec every single step of the way. I don't know what process you guys at CCP use for designing, but this particular project calls for constant user input and review.



CCP never ask ppl live in null sec .. they just do things what ever they want.. coz they knw the CODE..

MU Q is what our CSM stands for .. they do anything at all .. all these vote and things
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
#1334 - 2015-03-04 14:09:47 UTC
Not going to slog through 60+ pages to see if this has been asked but curious what effect cloaking will have on the Entosis link. Will you be able to cloak if active? If so, I assume it will deactivate the link. But then I'd ask when?
Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#1335 - 2015-03-04 14:10:57 UTC
Ambassador Crane wrote:
Not going to slog through 60+ pages to see if this has been asked but curious what effect cloaking will have on the Entosis link. Will you be able to cloak if active? If so, I assume it will deactivate the link. But then I'd ask when?


if that mod active u cant cloak ret remote rep or anything
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1336 - 2015-03-04 14:14:54 UTC
Kah'Les wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
So someone with 100 titans can jump them in and initiate a sov change instantly/quickly, while the newbies have to do whatever it is you want them to do instead of using the entosis link to grind it out up to 40 minutes?


Yes! You will still have a defensive timer that anyone can show up too. 100 titans alone can't kill any sub cap. The game is not supposed to be fair, noobs are not supposed to be able to do the same as a long time veteran.

As I said, that's the wrong line of thinking, even if we ignore the fallacy that titans can't kill subcaps, and this won't fly. Try again.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1337 - 2015-03-04 14:16:34 UTC
Lake Askiras wrote:
Couple concerns:
-If the Entosis hackingmathingy doesnt stop your ship, I´m gonna orbit the thing in a interceptor going 20k m/s and laugh at everyone
-The prime time thing, although I understand why you think its good idea, BUT consider this drives alliances to throw multi-timezone away and only focus on single tz, the "prime time". You need to either make the window lot longer or come up with something else.


And I'm ging to park my defensive link noob ship at 0 on the mnodule your targeting and laugh at you buzzing around not accomplishing anything.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Doctor Fabulous MD
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1338 - 2015-03-04 14:17:13 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:

Show me the inty fit that locks at 250. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and tank a sniper Muninn. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and outrun a speed fit PVP inty/pirate frig.


this thing locks at 250 in sniper mode while going 7km/s , and it locks at 190 in speed mode, while going 11km/s (9kms if you dont use snakes+quafe zero) and will speedtank any sniper fit in the game at that speed and range.

http://i.imgur.com/t29IKHD.png (yes thats a whole 3 dps at 190km)

sniper fits are setup for 100% max tracking, with the smallest guns that will reach optimally at that range + appropriate ammo, hence their lack of targeting range in that graph. If you can find me a fit that tracks anywhere even close to well ill be shocked.

It also goes too fast to probe down, and can do the cloak mwd trick so hard its 30km out of a bubble before the MWD stops cycling, so its pretty much uncatchable at gates.

Anything that lands on grid that is capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately overheat MWD and burn towards a safe until the no-warp timer runs out (2 minutes max), warp off, cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.

Even with the SLIM possibility of getting caught, its at very most 200 million lost, meanwhile if an alliance loses a fully upgraded ihub, its billions + weeks of effort and freighter convoys.

Extremely balanced.


It's still not an interceptor, and will die to an instalocking Svipul like every small ship atm. Anyway, it can't take sov, just initiate the counter, and the locals respond with their own sov beam.

To lose the fully upgraded ihub etc, the attackers need to win 10 plexes, just flying around with the sov beam does nothing.


with the cloak mwd thing that instalocking svipul will never get a chance to lock it, as it will instantly warp off (hint, you align to either a bookmark or a celestial)
Kah'Les
hirr
Pandemic Horde
#1339 - 2015-03-04 14:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kah'Les
Lord TGR wrote:
Kah'Les wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
So someone with 100 titans can jump them in and initiate a sov change instantly/quickly, while the newbies have to do whatever it is you want them to do instead of using the entosis link to grind it out up to 40 minutes?


Yes! You will still have a defensive timer that anyone can show up too. 100 titans alone can't kill any sub cap. The game is not supposed to be fair, noobs are not supposed to be able to do the same as a long time veteran.

As I said, that's the wrong line of thinking, even if we ignore the fallacy that titans can't kill subcaps, and this won't fly. Try again.


I don't see why thinking someone with 50 mill SP can do more than someone with 5 mill SP is a fals way of thinking. It's all there in the numbersRoll
Gremoxx
Wing Commanders
#1340 - 2015-03-04 14:17:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Gremoxx wrote:
Some thoughts on this:

AFK / cloaked camps will need to be fixed. Anyone who interrupts industrial / ratting activity is basically declaring war by default, as indexes will drop and capturing the system will be easier.

What ship class can fit this module ?, will the ship be fixed in space or can it move ? can I use interceptor with implants / booster drugs / rigs and do 7000m/s while using this new module?

Region entry systems, high-sec gateways, choke points. Doing ratting / industrial in these systems is near impossible, with the new sov system, you will be defending these systems on hourly / daily bases as indexes will be nill.

Change is good, but this new sov mechanics will need a bit more before it can be bought wholesale.



AFK cloak rubbish again

There are two of them in my home system and it hasn't stopped us from mining or ratting

Or blops or fights or a million other things

If you can't function with the unknow your life must be full of fear


That's what I love about your PFR guys. You actually have a pair, unlike Provi.


OMG !!! Really ! Try another.... o´and dont mix CVA with other identities in Provi. I don´t mind camping systems and BLOP´s them till the end of day´s. And its always fun hunting BLOP´s teams.

On a more serious note, this is one mechanic that will start to get more serious than before, it will not just be nuisance.