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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#801 - 2015-03-03 22:55:59 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Reading all those pages ...


I would like to State this Again
Sov Link Module Should ba banned on Interceptors and all ships that can use covops cloaks Attention



Correct me if I am wrong but I did not see anything preventing any sov holder from countering an interceptor with another interceptor, depriving them of their ability to switch control.

Or is there some reason why you are not able to counter interceptors?


it's not about counter on grid, it's about the move very fast across space and you can't tackle them right now, if they are semi travel fit.

Soo you can't tackle the people and they can just jump few systems away and troll there.

or fleet of 20 interceptors troling the whole region, coz they can and it's very easy to run, and imposible to tackle if they don't wona get tackled :<

Thats way. you can't gate camp them, you can't do any thing to them if they are smart.
It's completly OP
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#802 - 2015-03-03 22:56:21 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.



I think the idea is that some attempt is made to counter the challenge, not to provide easy kills so one can get back to ratting quickly.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#803 - 2015-03-03 22:56:47 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
and so begins the subbing of accounts.. month to month screw paying you guys months upfront.. EVER AGAIN.
take your plex and stick it.


Why dont you like the changes?



cause ccp cant even figure out why folks play this game. look at it's history they fail at player retention. it may be harsh and its true. a lot of us right now are pissed off to the fullest. we have cap pilots now sitting in huge paperweights (haha bet you wish you could dock now right).. yet ccp cant understand why folks refuse to pay alittle longer..

plus I am sick of those surveys they send out, its pretty blatant they don't pay attention to it..just like feedback threads.. oops did I say that.. no fawks given.

this whole change would be better suited for Low-Sec and not Null-sec cause its understandable the scope of fixing null is so difficult that they CCP do not want to spend any further time dealing with it.

now i'll wait and give them pennies instead of full dollars just incase they cant figure out why im no longer biting at their carrot they love to dangle.
SoulLess Zealot
Khaedra's Law
#804 - 2015-03-03 22:57:11 UTC
Total Newbie wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

To recap:

1st phase we made it impossible to project force.

2nd phase we have made it so any scrub corp or band of newbie alts can mess with sov.


yea thats the idea. if you can handle a bunch of "scrub newbie alts" you didn't really deserve it in the first place. sorry you cant sit back ,rat and drop supers on anything that tries to contest you.

im glad ccp has turned null sec from a niche lag grind into something more fun and meaningful. something that is actualy worthy of the revere!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#805 - 2015-03-03 22:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Reading all those pages ...


I would like to State this Again
Sov Link Module Should ba banned on Interceptors and all ships that can use covops cloaks Attention



Correct me if I am wrong but I did not see anything preventing any sov holder from countering an interceptor with another interceptor, depriving them of their ability to switch control.

Or is there some reason why you are not able to counter interceptors?


it's not about counter on grid, it's about the move very fast across space and you can't tackle them right now, if they are semi travel fit.

Soo you can't tackle the people and they can just jump few systems away and troll there.

or fleet of 20 interceptors troling the whole region, coz they can and it's very easy to run, and imposible to tackle if they don't wona get tackled :<

Thats way. you can't gate camp them, you can't do any thing to them if they are smart.
It's completly OP



But you can counter them at the timer, effort needs to be taken LOCALLY to defend, relying on distant friends is no longer an option.
I believe that is the whole point.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#806 - 2015-03-03 22:58:29 UTC
Escuro wrote:

it's a chance to zerg-rush a big bad alliance by smaller ones in different parts of space. you don't need a cap-blob to gain sov with this mechanic, so just get a roam going - no one is capable defending 3-5 consts at once.


The CFC and possibly BRAVE or Provibloc, could defend against something like that.

This initial model is very unbalanced in favor of huge entities with lots of warm bodies who actually live in their space like the CFC and also BRAVE and Provibloc to a lesser extent.

The main losers in this model are the smaller entities who rely on supercap muscle and vast renter empires to hold space like N3 and PL. This model would very quickly spell the end of NA. and B0T.

Making Interceptors the primary ship for sov warfare also makes zero sense, not to mention all the abuse this will see from cofessors/svipls and 100mn Tengus/Proteii.
Hibernator X
Standing Wave Society
#807 - 2015-03-03 22:59:50 UTC
A 4 hour time frame is a pretty bad idea, basically you are putting many players in a situation where they can't fly for their Alliance/friends and are forced to look elsewhere for content. For some people that might not be a big deal but telling the guy who you've been flying with for years that his timezone relegates him to a less meaningful role in the alliance won't go over well with a lot of people.

It's a strange idea for a developer to put a system in place that meta games a player's personal life and circumstances. It's way too exclusionary of a system in it's current form. I'm all for granular sov but when you can potentially tear apart groups of players who have developed RL connections, and potentially all but snuff out less popular timezones for the most cited selling activity of the game it's not a good solution.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#808 - 2015-03-03 23:00:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.



Yep Fcuk* noob ships inties and covops alt's taking sov, for real.

it should be at lest some hussle, t1 cruisers at least.

Or every timers will be floded by cheap crap frig orbiting the sov structures at 250 km .........
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#809 - 2015-03-03 23:00:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#810 - 2015-03-03 23:01:14 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.



Yep ***** noob ships inties and covops alt's taking sov, for real.

it should be at lest some hussle, t1 cruisers at least.

Or every timers will be floded by cheap crap frig orbiting the sov structures at 250 km .........

you need to LOCK ON to the TCU first. And with a 2m cycle you stay there for 12 minutes at minimum.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#811 - 2015-03-03 23:03:28 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Escuro wrote:

it's a chance to zerg-rush a big bad alliance by smaller ones in different parts of space. you don't need a cap-blob to gain sov with this mechanic, so just get a roam going - no one is capable defending 3-5 consts at once.


The CFC and possibly BRAVE or Provibloc, could defend against something like that.

This initial model is very unbalanced in favor of huge entities with lots of warm bodies who actually live in their space like the CFC and also BRAVE and Provibloc to a lesser extent.

The main losers in this model are the smaller entities who rely on supercap muscle and vast renter empires to hold space like N3 and PL. This model would very quickly spell the end of NA. and B0T.

Making Interceptors the primary ship for sov warfare also makes zero sense, not to mention all the abuse this will see from cofessors/svipls and 100mn Tengus/Proteii.



Oh don't worry about Tengu Protei, and F*** the AFK epires, The warm bodies it's what it whould it be about. you defend space you live in, not have 9999 other sytems just coz you can ;/


But inties, dessies and covops will be a problem, they will be abuse, so let's just get rid of it now.
Capt Tenguru79
We Love Cynos
We Use Cynos
#812 - 2015-03-03 23:03:49 UTC
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.

Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#813 - 2015-03-03 23:03:51 UTC
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.



Clearly the attempt to make it so small ships cannot be used is an attempt to undo what CCP are trying to achieve.
They still want to trap ships far from the target so they do not have to deploy locally to deal with the issue. And slow ships will give easy kills, and nothing changes.

The message will sink in eventually.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#814 - 2015-03-03 23:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Need to think much more before giving feedback as to the overall direction.

However, three small points.

1) Mining and ratting should be able to substitute for each other. This system makes doing both extremely important to holding sov. Let players do the one they prefer rather than providing mechanical advantages to splitting your effort 50/50 between the two.

2) Entosis links will be frequently destroyed and so should drive an enormous amount of industrial production. Crius (for all of its successes) had one enormous failure in that it reduced the gamewide demand for production line hours and science line hours.

I propose that you make Entosis Links take a considerable amount of time to produce (of the order 4 production hours for a T1, 36 science hours and 16 production hours for a T2 assuming skills all at 4, station services and no decryptor being used) to help address this.

This will help address some of the economic issues caused by Crius's increased production throughput.

Some numbers that would achieve this ballpark:

Base production time: 6 hours Entosis Link 1, 24 hours EL 2
Base invention %: 30
Base copy time: 6 hours EL 1
Invention time: 6 hours EL 1
Base BPC max runs: 720 (EL1), 1 (EL2)


Finally, EL2s should be produced with something that marks them out as 'different' to other production, and that favors building them in nullsec. I propose a Megacyte-heavy basket of minerals for EL1s, and an EL1 plus 250 of each racial Processor for EL2s.

(Edit: 250, not 2500. You have a math degree IRL Sabriz, don't be an idiot)


3) Entosis trollfits (fitted for absurd speed) are going to be a hell of a nuisance. A 10MN MWD Confessor orbiting a structure with an EL2 will be a horrendous thing to catch. Please add a hard cap on the speed players can go with an EL active - I propose 3000m/s for EL1 and 3600m/s for EL2.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#815 - 2015-03-03 23:04:15 UTC
So what's gonna happen the first time that CFC have a massive blob fight going on: 99% of the rest of their sov gets reinforced by troll fleets in the time it takes to cycle their guns once in Tidi....


The more I think about this, the more I like it.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Elana Apgar
Allspark Industries
#816 - 2015-03-03 23:05:37 UTC
Everyone's complaining about the timezone mechanic, but to it actually sounds like a good idea. Who doesn't want to have guaranteed PVP every day during their prime time?

The changes sound like they want Null-Sec to be more engulfed in PVP on a more regular basis instead of just the super blob fights that happen, as well as a tug of war game with systems instead of the same people holding the same systems, all of which are empty.

I look forward to how this develops further.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#817 - 2015-03-03 23:05:38 UTC
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

And it's still countered by an atron sat at 0 with a link of its own...

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#818 - 2015-03-03 23:06:05 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
My question for the new sov mechanics, what will happen to Ihub build cost and size? I don't suppose you can make them small enough to fit in a jump freighter? It would have the benefit of allowing smaller alliances an easier path to put them in. And for combat, it puts a very expensive freighter (jf) at risk.

atm unless your system you wish to have an ihub is close to a station, the preferred method is bridge the freighter with a Titan. It you make the iHUB 350k or so..then a Jump Freighter could be used instead.

Likewise I would like to see all the upgrades installed fit in a jump freighter. People complain jf pilots take no risks and only jump to station. If you make this change..then additional risks will be taken with jf by those not large or rich enough to own titans.


+1 on this, all upgrades should fit in jf, no more than 300k M3.
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#819 - 2015-03-03 23:07:41 UTC
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.

Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

i'd like to see the cap consumption of the "link" first before discussing it actually. if it will eat out your cap - any other inty will counter it.
Violent Morgana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#820 - 2015-03-03 23:08:56 UTC
So I have gang of 20 ceptors, fit for extreme speed (20km/s for example and 150km locking range) and t2 Entosis Link. Who/What can stop my gang from reinforcing the whole region? The module needs to either disable any prop mods or make the ship stationary like siege does. That will give you the fights you are trying to force.

Also whats up with this prime time? Should we only have USTZ alliance, EUTZ alliance etc in huge blocks focused on very specific 4hour window in time?