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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Selling off kill rights

First post
Author
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-03-01 16:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonlit Raid
In general I love this addition, great having more opportunities for killing ****, especially in the case of a kill right. Where the player aggressed is unlikely to be able to hand out their own retribution they can sell on their kill right to anyone who may be willing to do it for them. Herein lies the problem, the player with the kill right is able to set the cost, I don't think this should be the case, their options should be limited to what they want their availability to be and a "fee" check box.

Free
Just as it is now with the "cost" set to 0 isk.

Fee
*20% of the current ships pend insurance estimate value is required to activate the kill right.

*Figure is only a starting point and would likely need to be lower.

Two things drive this, one up one down. Up; more money for the person illegally attacked. Down (and imho more important); cheaper for someone to initiate a fight.

Fewer freighters out there insured to platinum with 999,999,999 isk kill rights on them from shooting their mate in an ibis. I have no doubt there are people stupid enough to push the button on these, but does their right to scam outweigh my right to shoot someone. I think not.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-03-01 16:31:30 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Fewer freighters out there insured to platinum with 999,999,999 isk kill rights on them from shooting their mate in an ibis. I have no doubt there are people stupid enough to push the button on these, but does their right to scam outweigh my right to shoot someone. I think not.



Why do you think scamming like this is bad? If people are dumb enough to fall for it...
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-03-01 16:34:15 UTC
I merely said I think my right to shoot them is more important than their right to scam.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-03-01 16:37:38 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I merely said I think my right to shoot them is more important than their right to scam.



Why?
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-03-01 16:42:24 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I merely said I think my right to shoot them is more important than their right to scam.



Why?

Blinkies in overview I can't shoot at?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2015-03-01 16:47:17 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I merely said I think my right to shoot them is more important than their right to scam.



Why?

Blinkies in overview I can't shoot at?



But you can, if you pay for it.

Why should the owner of a killright not be able to set the price? If I am selling the right to kill you, why should I not be able to ask whatever I want for it?

If it's entirely down to the value of your ship, what's stopping me from selling a killright on an alt in a pirate BS, then swapping to a rifter the second someone pays for it?
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-03-01 17:03:21 UTC
One step at a time Dani, one step at a time. I fully support your move for forced ship choices during engagement too. Inability to use gates, dock, eject, re-ship etc etc.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2015-03-01 17:06:01 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
One step at a time Dani, one step at a time. I fully support your move for forced ship choices during engagement too. Inability to use gates, dock, eject, re-ship etc etc.



Do you have any idea how easy that would be to exploit?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2015-03-01 19:53:50 UTC
My apologies, I made a mistake. It was the other thread that was redundant, not this one.

Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2015-03-01 19:56:04 UTC
How about every single kill right in the game gets listed on a Black Board/Wanted Board with opt-out (you have to actively remove KRs from the market via the KR section in the Char sheet or a better, fancier menu). Players can browse the BB for KRs by regions, constellations, systems (where KR originated), by player names, issuer names (those in whose stead you are supposed to kill someone), and so on. Issuers can set bounties/rewards/activation cost/etc and interested players can contact issuers if no reward/bounty has been placed and suggest such for their service (potentially more player interaction). If you are in a station with a locator agent, you could even directly from that menu request a track down on the char in question.

The rest can be as in your suggestion.

*beats Ezwal again on posting after lock* :>

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-03-01 20:16:30 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
How about every single kill right in the game gets listed on a Black Board/Wanted Board with opt-out (you have to actively remove KRs from the market via the KR section in the Char sheet or a better, fancier menu). Players can browse the BB for KRs by regions, constellations, systems (where KR originated), by player names, issuer names (those in whose stead you are supposed to kill someone), and so on. Issuers can set bounties/rewards/activation cost/etc and interested players can contact issuers if no reward/bounty has been placed and suggest such for their service (potentially more player interaction). If you are in a station with a locator agent, you could even directly from that menu request a track down on the char in question.

The rest can be as in your suggestion.

*beats Ezwal again on posting after lock* :>

I especially like the idea of this being opt-OUT, I fairly recently ganked someone and I think I made him rage quit, so my KR is sat there available to one guy who isn't likely to log back on to put it up for grabs.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Ix Method
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-03-01 21:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Apparently posting two contrary ideas on the same topic is redundant so here I am to hijack your thread Smile

Ix Method wrote:
A simple way to build upon [the current killrights/bounty system] would seem to be the creation of a market, whereby I could list killrights with an associated bounty if [Mr Bad] was killed for x amount.

So for example 'Adorable Roleplayer #1776' comes along in his Catalyst and kills my Covetor. Much sadness but still, I have a killright.

Now, instead of just throwing it up for free in the hopes someone kills this random player, I can list it on the new Market offering a 20m bounty to whoever kills him in a ship/pod worth 100m or more. Should the killright expire before the bounty is taken, the bounty amount would be returned.

Seems like a fun, simple way to polish an underutilised feature and kickstart bounty hunting as a career.

@OP Selling killrights has never really made sense to me tbh, the chances of everything falling into place for them to be completed are fairly slim, particularly given the prevalence of highsec ganking.

@Rivr Am not sure automagic listing on a mass board would help particularly given how many are just left/ignored. But definitely some sort of way to sift through actively listed killrights and a tie in with locator agents would be a great step forward when combined with a way to reward bounty hunters.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#13 - 2015-03-02 15:16:53 UTC
See the problem is that killrights used to be a good thing, and not really scammed 99% of the time. But since CCP too eons to actually fix killrights to display correctly it gave all of the scammers time to figure out a new way to scam.

Combining this with the Bounty system in terms of finding people to go kill would be a nice change, seeing how the current bounty system doesn't actually give you a right to shoot the person and usually involves you suiciding to kill them.

I don't know if there is a way to fix the system to be more legit killrights than scam killrights, but it is something to be considered now that they got it functional, just a shame it took them so long, like almost 2 years? But CCP is too busy breaking other non-broken things to even consider fixing a system that took them 2 years to get to display correctly.
Thoirdhealbhach
Liga der hessischen Gentlemen
#14 - 2015-03-02 16:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Thoirdhealbhach
Well, how about this:

Remove the current bounty system and allow bounties only to be issued via killrights and offer the option to extend suspect timers for a fee.

1)
If someone gets a kill-right from somebody else he gets two options:
a) release the kill right to the general population for free.
b) Pay a "kill-bounty", with bounty payouts handled the way it is done under the current system. The kill right will then be released to the public AND the kill right will stay active until the bounty payout has reached the damages the offender did in the first place times ranks in new skill "Damage claims" #, which would also be the max bounty one can add to an offender at a time.

2)
If an offender gets a suspect timer, everyone has the option to place an "extension fee": The suspect timer then gets extended by a multiplier calculated from the fee with something like:

new suspect timer duration = old duration x 10 x fee / current ships value (what would be shown on a killmail as total) x skill based discount.


# New skill: Social skill, something along the lines of "Damage claims": Allows you to place a bounty, when a killright becomes eligible to you. The maximum allowed bounty per incident equals your losses times the rank of this skill. At Level 5 you could place a bounty that's 5 times what your losses (total worth on your killmail) have been.

Also add a new skill called "Prosecution connections": Each time, when you are allowed to offer a bounty or an extension fee, the amount is subsidized by 19% or the original value of your damage claim, whichever is less.

This would make concord basically redundant, as with maxed out skills, you could impose a penalty on your attacker, that equals your own losses for only 5% of your losses. Blowing up large shiny ships could make you a suspect for quite a long time.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#15 - 2015-03-02 18:05:59 UTC
The system does need a rework, all I ever see now is people with 1b isk killrights on their alts in a hauler, a few in their orca to make it more appetizing.
The only time I've seen free killrights have been the idiot incursion runners who leave their safety red after being told to make sure its green and they shoot a login or a cap buddy

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-03-02 19:52:44 UTC
I am amazed you could keep a straight face... in words... with this trolling attempt...