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Idea to wardecs and highsec
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-03-01 10:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Remove the current wardec mechanism and replace it by a corp-level crimewatch mechanic, with the following new stats:

1. wardecs become mutual corp duels

2. shooting corp property (e.g. POS) triggers a corp-wide suspect timer for 48h (read: "corp being on the warpath"), the CEO/directors get new corp-wide safety settings, to decide if line members are allowed to go "corp suspect"

3. shooting back or repping the property triggers a limited engagement timer between the involved corps for 24h, exempt automatic fire (e.g. unpiloted POS guns). Limited corp engagements (aka wars) are carried over to new corps by any member leaving and joining.

There may be some tweaking required to clearly separate personal flags from corp flags and with the timers, but those are the core elements which base on a well-established and working mechanic.

Pros:
- simple, no new mechanic needed
- shall create more conflict as the bureaucratic barriers and costs to start a war are removed
- shall serve corps which don't need properties, they are essentially safe from wars (no need for "social corps" - not to be confused with clubs)
- owning properties in space means you have to fight for, or you will lose it
- every corp can join the war on the defender side by shooting "corp suspects"

Cons:
- Corps with properties in highsec which can't/wan't to fight, can be wrecked easier. is this too much of risk?
- Goons will be happy to get rid of constant wardecs ...

What do you think?

EDIT: I will update with feedback.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#2 - 2015-03-01 10:52:51 UTC
-1

Wars have already been nerfed into oblivion and are (still) way too easy to avoid.
They need a buff, not "yet another nerf"
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#3 - 2015-03-01 10:59:58 UTC
I like this idea on the basis that you could shoot a POS to Awox your corp mates.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-03-01 11:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Arden Elenduil wrote:
-1

Wars have already been nerfed into oblivion and are (still) way too easy to avoid.
They need a buff, not "yet another nerf"

If you are fine losing your property, then you can avoid it, sure.

McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
I like this idea on the basis that you could shoot a POS to Awox your corp mates.


I thought about that too Twisted

But I think in this regard you have to refine the idea, that the CEO/director gets a toggle to turn on/off line members starting potential wars. Though you still can awox your corp into an arranged war by shooting "corp suspects".

I'm my own NPC alt.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#5 - 2015-03-01 11:29:32 UTC
Arden Elenduil wrote:
-1

Wars have already been nerfed into oblivion and are (still) way too easy to avoid.
They need a buff, not "yet another nerf"

This is very true! I feel the problem is that corps are a 'one size fits all' type deal. No matter what you intend for your corp - PvP, industry, exploration, PvE, social, etc... - there is only one type of corp you can create.

I would suggest that corps be separated into two tiers - those registered with Concord and those that are not.

ArrowCorps that are not registered with Concord would be unable to tax their members, own structures in space, rent offices, etc... they would be entirely relegated to social status. A way for a group of friends to communicate more easily. These severely limited corps would be immune to war decs because Concord does not recognise them as valid targets.

ArrowCorps that do want to own POCOs and POSs, tax their members, and rent offices, etc... would have to register with Concord for the right to do so. This would make them eligible to be war decced. Finally, every character who has ever been in one of these Concord registered corps would gain a new public attribute: Desertions. Concord will treat deserters like benefit frauds and charge them extra for the creation of new corporations. Every time you dodge a war dec, it will be more expensive to create your new corp! Players will be able to see how many times new applicants have deserted their previous corps and choose not to recruit flakes.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-03-01 11:33:53 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Arden Elenduil wrote:
-1

Wars have already been nerfed into oblivion and are (still) way too easy to avoid.
They need a buff, not "yet another nerf"

This is very true! I feel the problem is that corps are a 'one size fits all' type deal. No matter what you intend for your corp - PvP, industry, exploration, PvE, social, etc... - there is only one type of corp you can create.

I would suggest that corps be separated into two tiers - those registered with Concord and those that are not.

You propose to introduce new corps making the game more complex, but please check my idea, it's included there without new mechanics. If you are fine not owning any property in space, you will be immune to non-consensual corp wars. But not by a one time decision when you choose/create the corp but by behavior, essentially playing the game.

I'm my own NPC alt.
LT Alter
Ryba.
White Squall.
#7 - 2015-03-01 11:50:12 UTC
(insert obligatory carebear smack talk here)

I might aswell say nothing here, considering your ideas will never bear any fruit. But I guess I will respond to as of why they won't, and why they shouldn't

The changes to war mechanics are bad enough as they are, eve is meant to be dangerous, not safe. Your prosal makes eve extremely safe for high sec carebear corps. If I want to wardec you and destroy your structures, I should be able to do so, your changes make that imposible if you do not explictely allow me to do so.

Also, corp-wide suspect timers... This idea is so intrinsically that I feel the need for comment is nil, however i will say, this would be so exploitable and unfair to highsec pvpers that it's just plain bad.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-03-01 11:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
While your specifics are a bit weird the idea of a less formal way to kickstart wars is a pretty solid one. As much as it'd require mechanics tweaks to stop it being oppressive/completely ******* indy corps being able to come out of nowhere and reinforce x number of structures without the standard give 24 hour notice/pull everything down/flip to another corp bullshit may be a decent part of a wardec revamp..

It's still only part though, doesn't address the far larger problem of corps essentially being worthless shells and not worth defending unless you fancy the fights.

We live in hope for the upcoming corp/structure stuff, until that's live and bedded in its pretty much impossible to suggest how wars should work.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-03-01 11:54:05 UTC
LT Alter wrote:
If I want to wardec you and destroy your structures, I should be able to do so, your changes make that imposible if you do not explictely allow me to do so.

Why? Just shoot the POS, wait for the reinforcement timer to run out and wreck it. If the POS owner does not show up, good. If the corp has some balls you get your war. Or another corp jumps in to shoot you providing content.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-03-01 11:58:20 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
it'd require mechanics tweaks to stop it being oppressive/completely ******* indy corps being able to come out of nowhere and reinforce x number of structures without the standard give 24 hour notice/pull everything down/flip to another corp bullshit may be a decent part of a wardec revamp..

Good point, actually I was thinking about it, but intentionally scraped the initial timer for more conflicts ... but maybe there is some "heatup" time required ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
LT Alter
Ryba.
White Squall.
#11 - 2015-03-01 11:59:20 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
LT Alter wrote:
If I want to wardec you and destroy your structures, I should be able to do so, your changes make that imposible if you do not explictely allow me to do so.

Why? Just shoot the POS, wait for the reinforcement timer to run out and wreck it. If the POS owner does not show up, good. If the corp has some balls you get your war. Or another corp jumps in to shoot you providing content.


Tipa Riot wrote:
"Remove the non-consensual wardec mechanism"

"shooting corp property (e.g. POS) triggers a corp-wide suspect timer for 48h"
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-03-01 12:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
LT Alter wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
LT Alter wrote:
If I want to wardec you and destroy your structures, I should be able to do so, your changes make that imposible if you do not explictely allow me to do so.

Why? Just shoot the POS, wait for the reinforcement timer to run out and wreck it. If the POS owner does not show up, good. If the corp has some balls you get your war. Or another corp jumps in to shoot you providing content.


Tipa Riot wrote:
"Remove the non-consensual wardec mechanism"

"shooting corp property (e.g. POS) triggers a corp-wide suspect timer for 48h"


The attacker goes suspect, not the defender. The defender can decide to fight or not, but see my answer above. No more Concord, the attacker can just keep shooting. It's about balancing the risk/reward.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-03-01 12:36:26 UTC
Yes, please. My alliance has been under constant wardec for years, it'll be nice to be able to undock in Jita again, and nothing bad could possibly happen.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-03-01 12:39:35 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Yes, please. My alliance has been under constant wardec for years, it'll be nice to be able to undock in Jita again, and nothing bad could possibly happen.

OK, I will add this to the feedback. Blink

I'm my own NPC alt.
Valkin Mordirc
#15 - 2015-03-01 12:58:55 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Remove the current wardec mechanism and replace it by a corp-level crimewatch mechanic, with the following new stats:

1. wardecs become mutual corp duels

2. shooting corp property (e.g. POS) triggers a corp-wide suspect timer for 48h (read: "corp being on the warpath"), the CEO/directors get new corp-wide safety settings, to decide if line members are allowed to go "corp suspect"

3. shooting back or repping the property triggers a limited engagement timer between the involved corps for 24h, exempt automatic fire (e.g. unpiloted POS guns)

There may be some tweaking required to clearly separate personal flags from corp flags and with the timers, but those are the core elements which base on a well-established and working mechanic.

Pros:
- simple, no new mechanic needed
- shall create more conflict as the bureaucratic barriers and costs to start a war are removed
- shall serve corps which don't need properties, they are essentially safe from wars (no need for "social corps" - not to be confused with clubs)
- owning properties in space means you have to fight for, or you will lose it
- every corp can join the war on the defender side by shooting "corp suspects"

Cons:
- Corps with properties in highsec which can't/wan't to fight, can be wrecked easier. is this too much of risk?
- Goons will be happy to get rid of constant wardecs ...

What do you think?

EDIT: I will update with feedback.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


No
#DeleteTheWeak
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2015-03-01 13:26:48 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
ArrowCorps that do want to own POCOs and POSs, tax their members, and rent offices, etc... would have to register with Concord for the right to do so. This would make them eligible to be war decced. Finally, every character who has ever been in one of these Concord registered corps would gain a new public attribute: Desertions. Concord will treat deserters like benefit frauds and charge them extra for the creation of new corporations. Every time you dodge a war dec, it will be more expensive to create your new corp! Players will be able to see how many times new applicants have deserted their previous corps and choose not to recruit flakes.

Sounds fancy in theory, but is likely not going to have any effect in practice. People can just leave a shell corp behind with a never-logging in, station sitting alt and return to the corp once the dec is over. Besides, how does this work if you create a new corp when you are not under a war dec? I'd find it kind of unfair if I get punished for creating new corps when I am in an NPC corp and my previous corp is not wardecced by the time I create that corp. I'd agree on that the Desertion status increases the corp creation cost when you create a corp while your former corp is still under a wardec, but not if the former corp has no wardec running.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
LT Alter
Ryba.
White Squall.
#17 - 2015-03-01 14:45:23 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:

The attacker goes suspect, not the defender. The defender can decide to fight or not, but see my answer above. No more Concord, the attacker can just keep shooting. It's about balancing the risk/reward.


I understood you the first time, since you don't seem to understand me though I'll spell it out for you.

I am an eve online player, I play eve to pvp, I play eve to blow your stuff up, I do not ask you first if it's ok to blow your stuff up first. Your proposal is that I can only blow your stuff up if you 'allow' me to do so. In eve as it is (and the way it should stay) if you undock you consent to pvp, which means you consent to me blowing you up.

Based on the above, the idea of "Non-consensual wars being removed" is bad, and should not happen.

Also as I said before, corp wide suspect is just plain bad and should never, ever, ever, happen.
Bright Noa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-03-01 15:00:38 UTC
War Decs kinda make no sense as it is. Why does Concord vaporize you if you shoot someone out of the blue, but it's ok for you to make several people your prey against their will in the form of a war dec'd corp? It's never really made any sense to me. They need a new over haul. Everything CCP has done feels like bandaid slapping when it comes to these.

Granted, I can understand some of it from the developer's point of view to stop over crowding in high sec.. but there has to be a better way to manage these.

Perhaps if they want to make it so there is always a possibility of danger in high sec, they need to make it possible to run away from Concord if you're good enough. That would actually make being a small time pirate in high sec really, really fun I think, trying to dodge them... but then this isn't about that so I'll stop brain storming down that path.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-03-01 15:34:28 UTC
You could just head out to Null sec, Low Sec, and W-Space and find lots of people to participate in a war.

But that would mean they would shoot back.

And that's the problem, you would find someone willing to fight.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2015-03-01 16:29:40 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
You could just head out to Null sec, Low Sec, and W-Space and find lots of people to participate in a war.

But that would mean they would shoot back.

And that's the problem, you would find someone willing to fight.



Why do you think you should be immune to PVP?
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