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Loan Contracts
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2015-02-24 20:10:50 UTC
thatonepersone wrote:
The interest would not have to beat tax/fee rates because of the difference between buy and sell orders. On a lot of 1b isk ships for example the difference is about 50m, so as long as you interest was far enough below 50m+taxes and fees it would be worth it.

You wouldn't lend a ship out for 50% of its value, you would lend it out for %100 of its value. For example, a player wants to run incursions but either dosnt want to fly there battle ship all the way to the incursion site, or maybe they are planning on only running that one day and does not want to have to invest in a new ship.

In an unoptimized station, 1B costs me around 15M in taxes and fees. That's a lovely kind of interest rate. Roll

So, if the players do not want to invest in an expensive ship because not enough money, they will loan a ship from a lender for 110% of the item value (including fitting)? Again, how is that different from a currently available Item Exchange?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
#22 - 2015-02-24 20:25:47 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
thatonepersone wrote:
The interest would not have to beat tax/fee rates because of the difference between buy and sell orders. On a lot of 1b isk ships for example the difference is about 50m, so as long as you interest was far enough below 50m+taxes and fees it would be worth it.

You wouldn't lend a ship out for 50% of its value, you would lend it out for %100 of its value. For example, a player wants to run incursions but either dosnt want to fly there battle ship all the way to the incursion site, or maybe they are planning on only running that one day and does not want to have to invest in a new ship.

In an unoptimized station, 1B costs me around 15M in taxes and fees. That's a lovely kind of interest rate. Roll

So, if the players do not want to invest in an expensive ship because not enough money, they will loan a ship from a lender for 110% of the item value (including fitting)? Again, how is that different from a currently available Item Exchange?


You will have to pay 15m in taxes and fees, plus the diffidence of the buy orders and the sell orders. so about 65m.

It is different from the item exchange because the two people dont have to trust each other.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2015-02-24 22:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
I would argue here that 1B is the BO price as you want the money instantly, hence the difference does not matter. It would then actually be even less tax/fees as you sell it with the Instantly option to save the Broker's fees.

Why do I need to trust with Item Exchanges? I put the item to be lent and the money I request as collateral for it in the contract and the other person pays the collateral and gets the item. If the other person wants to give the item back, it puts the item and collateral money in the contract and waits for the lender to accept. If the other person doesn't contract the item back, the lender keeps the money. If the other person contracts the item back and the lender accepts, the other person gets the loan back and the lender gets the ship back.
The loan works the same way. Unless you do the contracting back part automatically so that the beneficiary can "finish" the contract without the loaners consent and potentially put the loaner into a negative wallet. I don't see where that requires more trust or makes things easier. Actually, I think it makes matters worse of the automatic loan completion was a thing.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
#24 - 2015-02-24 22:31:05 UTC
It simplifys the process so you can do it in just one contract, and it insures the lender will get some money for lending the ship while preventing the lender from going back on his word and pretty much just selling the ship for a higher price. The is collateral would be held in the contract, so there is no chance of a negative wallet.

The difference between the sell price and the buy price would still be about 50m. You buy the ship for one price, then you sell it for 50m cheaper to a buy order unless you are going to sit in the trade hub and play the 0.01isk game.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-02-24 22:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Danika Princip wrote:
Why would you do that and not just sell the item in the first place?


This was always the issue I had with loans.

They can be viable, in rare cases though. Cases of like say having a rare or high priced item you want back like say a t2 bpo or rare eve item not common. In this case you looking for a very sizeable loan though. And with one poster having trust issues....if looking to give out the t2 bpo or uber rare item this issue resolved by going to a lender who is also a trusted 3rd party (usually there are some around).

Reason being that 3rd party:

A) has the isk you need to borrow

B) has a strong vested interest in not wrecking their credibility....over time service fees for mommie/titan sales holding pays nice for little work really....hold mommie, wait for buyer, move to system to change hands, get paid

C) If they want to turn evil they'd wait till they had a few mommies/titans in holding then go evil. The mommies will move faster and probably make more isk if sold for personal profit (as I recall some lenders hated t2 bpo's as collateral, if loan defaulted they can be hard as hell to move and rot for a while). Going to wreck the credibility, may as well make that isk quick and sleazy in the process.

That and for me there was always etc to plex to isk as an option. Even better these days, plex is high ass pricing. I did this once or twice years ago when it got you 300 mil a plex. Unless money is that tight scaring up an extra 15-30 for 1-2 etc should not have you skipping mortgage/rent payments. If it is....well said player has bigger issues than being space poor in eve and probably needs to take that game playing time and apply it to RL to fix that tbh.
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