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Dev blog: Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience

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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#41 - 2015-02-19 16:54:46 UTC
This seriously looks incredible and engaging. Plus simple. Way to go folks.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#42 - 2015-02-19 16:55:55 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc.

Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?


Simple answer is no. The closest come, for now, to establishing cause is to simply ask using exit surveys or other similar feedback channels. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with correlation.

As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!

Maybe every player should start with a ship that can carry at least one drone, and be given just enough base skills to use it. Then make "use drones against an enemy" be an opportunity.

Also, you need to think about opportunities that do involve social interaction, ib case that really is the cause.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#43 - 2015-02-19 16:56:46 UTC
Innominate wrote:
The career agents as in the ones that form the current advanced tutorials? Ok, so you've got the first few days covered, what's next? Edit: When the tutorials complete, pretend they no longer just dump the player into the game, what options does the new player have as far as things to do?


Doesn't Rise's comment quoted below suggest how it will evolve into something that could take up at least a new bro's trial period and well beyond?

CCP Rise wrote:
Later on we want to have enough content in this system that we can have them investigating game systems for weeks just based on Opportunities.


A new concept, with content being constantly filled in, will take time to significantly supplement or (even hopefully) supplant what we have now. That's okay...as these things go, it will provide more opportunities for refining methodology, topics, tasks, feedback, etc. Progress is progress and this Opportunities approach is a nice step in a good direction.

Lost in space, looking for sigs...

Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
Valterra Craven
#44 - 2015-02-19 16:57:06 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
But, we decided to release now, with limited content, since we think we can learn a lot even now by doing so, rather than waiting another release or two when we have content to fill a few weeks.


This is what really annoys me about CCP. You guys are not a new gaming company. You'd think you'd have learned by now that releasing content half finished is pretty much always a bad idea (incarna being a prime example). You have a new release cadence for a reason. Please use it.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#45 - 2015-02-19 16:58:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc.

Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?


Simple answer is no. The closest come, for now, to establishing cause is to simply ask using exit surveys or other similar feedback channels. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with correlation.

As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!



this is the picture coming up in my mind.. as you rise work on this.. I also begin to assume you listened to your CSM members who all went in on their ways of recruiting new players.. you said to yourself that Social Activity is important in eve online... yes it is, however what you do not see is how certain ones actually bully/grief those into force-joining corps/alliances..

folks join cause they hear or see about those huge ships and big battles.. that is the concrete foundation of eve popularity.. its not about drones.. well maybe once they see a gallente ship they do but hey... its very small lucky chance I found some swell guys to keep me around.. new bro's are having a hard time finding the cool guys cause of the griefing. you guys allow griefing and plenty ways around it and seems to continue being in denial about it...

is there a fix to bumping coming? nope
is there a fix to cloaky camping coming? nope
you think these don't have an effect on players?
you think a player would rather just move to another system or finally give up playing if these bad habits continue?...i'll wait
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#46 - 2015-02-19 16:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.

We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed. The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish.

I am really liking this opportunities idea. I think it will be a big improvement over the current NPE.

One of the things that some players and I came up with during a discussion about NPE is that new characters start off with a pitiful amount of SP. 56,489 SP doesn't give you many useful skills. The new player can't use an AB or a MWD, a warp disruptor, they have no capacitor skills, no weapon upgrade skill, no hull upgrades skill, no industry skills, no mining frigate skills, etc. Are you okay with this starting SP? Are you considering revamping the starting skills that a player has so they can complete more of these opportunities without having to wait time and again for 15-30 minutes for a level 1 skill to finish training?

Part of the reason I ask is when I was in Flying Dangerous we loved recruiting and taking day 1 new players and bringing them on our PvP fleets as tackle. Since we were roaming Syndicate at the time we had to have them train 5.5+ hours just to be able to use a MWD (to get out of bubbles they may have landed themselves in or to chase targets) and a t1 warp disruptor so they could point things. I imagine that a similar wait is present in many other potential career fields such as mining, mission running, FW, etc. Are you considering revamping the starting skills so that corporations that actively recruit new players will know they have a basic set of skills (i.e. not have to train 5.5+ hours to be useful to a 0.0 PvP fleet, mining fleet, mission running group, etc) so they can start helping the corp achieve the corps goals from the second they join?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#47 - 2015-02-19 16:58:47 UTC
Blue Harrier wrote:
Typical Devs I just spent a busy week starting Monday by activating an old account ready for, Tuesday and Tiamat deployment, Wednesday my 69th birthday and busy all day, so today I start training up my new character to try out the new (now old) NPE and then you go and announce your going to change everything.

However I have to say it looks good, pity the only way I can try it out on SiSi is to delete one of my characters. Not to worry I’ll start it off later and it should be complete by the time the update is deployed. Looking forward to comparing the old with the new.


Happy late birthday =D

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Titus Tallang
EVE University
Ivy League
#48 - 2015-02-19 17:00:48 UTC
I am absolutely thrilled by this change. The new system as presented is infinitely better than the currently-existing NPE, which, while offering a somewhat workable introduction to basic concepts, also serves to make new players get used to being told what to do by agents.

Thus leading them to become single-track high-sec mission runners.

Thus leading to them quitting the game once they get bored of it.

I've seen it too often (and may thus be bitter about it).


Great job Team Pirate Unicorns. This is a change that is long overdue, and very welcome - and the potential I can already see in the new system is tremendous.


PS: Don't be afraid to have higher-"tier" opportunities be activities that some people would consider "shady". Stuff like "suicide gank a player" (while explaining the consequences in basic terms) comes to mind. These are supposed to be optional, after all, and I see no reason to exclude valid gameplay from the list.

Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#49 - 2015-02-19 17:07:02 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc.

Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?


Based on the number of times I've seen new players talk in Local about how they don't know what to do next... maybe they could mine, I don't know... I'd guess that boredom and lack of direction are far more lethal to new players than anything else.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2015-02-19 17:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Quote:
I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.


This looks incredibly similar to my list. Can go a lot further though as well. Look at wingspantt's:

Salvage another player’s loot
Find and take another player’s abandoned drone
Pod kill another player
Broadcast a chat message in w-space
Visit the EVE Gate
Visit a shattered planet
Defeat a Drifter Battleship
Help fend off a Sansha incursion
Survive a ghost site hack
Mine X m3 of ice in nullsec
Mine X m3 of gas in w-space
Build a T2 ship or module
Plug in a hardwiring implant
Consume an illegal booster
Sell an item via contract

Lot of options for us going forward :)

@ccp_rise
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#51 - 2015-02-19 17:12:02 UTC
making PI easy too understand, quicker too setup and more info on what too make and how etc.. are much needed even for older guys

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Noriko Mai
#52 - 2015-02-19 17:12:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
[..]But, we decided to release now, with limited content, since we think we can learn a lot even now by doing so, rather than waiting another release or two when we have content to fill a few weeks.[..]

No offense, but this release with limited content thing seems to get a bit out of hand. Notifications are still bugy and the new map is too. Both haven't seen any progress for a while now. And it doesn't look like there is something in the works...
As much as I like the new release schedule it seems to encourage you to release alpha/beta features and then do the typical CCP "We finish it later" move. Later is sometime soon™. And soon™ is... yeah, maybe, eventually, sometime... oh look we have new beta feature!

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Suede
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-02-19 17:14:05 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.


This looks incredibly similar to my list.


so are you going to remove the Attributes and Leaning Augmentations
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#54 - 2015-02-19 17:17:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.


This looks incredibly similar to my list. Can go a lot further though as well. Look at wingspantt's:

Salvage another player’s loot
Find and take another player’s abandoned drone
Pod kill another player
Broadcast a chat message in w-space
Visit the EVE Gate
Visit a shattered planet
Defeat a Drifter Battleship
Help fend off a Sansha incursion
Survive a ghost site hack
Mine X m3 of ice in nullsec
Mine X m3 of gas in w-space
Build a T2 ship or module
Plug in a hardwiring implant
Consume an illegal booster
Sell an item via contract

Lot of options for us going forward :)



either I play too much ps3 games. but looking at the list im expecting a trophy for it.. ---- DING! give us trophy list ccp rise give it to us now!
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-02-19 17:26:25 UTC
The only problem with a list of trophies or achievements is that some will mistake it for the actual purpose of game play. Which it is not.

We do need to make sure that the starting player has access to isk, but if they route from opportunities to the career agents then the isk and ships are still there.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#56 - 2015-02-19 17:27:41 UTC
Suede wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.


This looks incredibly similar to my list.


so are you going to remove the Attributes and Leaning Augmentations



Funny you should mention that.

It's been discussed

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Odeva Pawen
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#57 - 2015-02-19 17:28:31 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!


Drones OP confirmed.

Overheat Keyboards! Load Rage posts! Prepare for a long, seething, back and forth about irrelevant things!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#58 - 2015-02-19 17:30:48 UTC
Odeva Pawen wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!


Drones OP confirmed.


drones certainly need a good nerf .. remove drones from non droneboats would also be nice

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2015-02-19 17:58:07 UTC
I like it. I can see a lot of potential with the system and look forward to seeing it in action.

I do think there needs to be some achievements associated with the more nefarious side of Eve. Things like losing a ship to Concord, gaining a suspect timer, gaining a criminal timer, be in a corp that declares a war, bumping the same ship multiple times in a given time frame, successfully suicide ganking someone, etc. Hell, come up with an opportunity for "doubling" someone's isk (I have no idea how that would work). Besides showing people that they can be evil bastards in Eve, it would also serve as a warning to a new player looking through opportunity tree that these things do exist and are considered valid gameplay.

Just my two cents.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#60 - 2015-02-19 18:03:47 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
The only problem with a list of trophies or achievements is that some will mistake it for the actual purpose of game play. Which it is not.

We do need to make sure that the starting player has access to isk, but if they route from opportunities to the career agents then the isk and ships are still there.

m


stop telling me what I want and why I should want to play the game. if I play the game to collect trophies and achievements like on my ps3 and ps4.. guess what.. it keeps me playing!..

im so not voting for some folks this go around.. I promise this