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Skynetting - bad idea?

Author
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-02-14 01:25:30 UTC
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)

Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#22 - 2015-02-14 01:30:13 UTC
I believe I had this happen to me. I was in my Executioner in low-sec and was playing around with these fools on a station. Well one of them undocked some capital ship I believe, anyway, I ended up warping off to a nearby station, and yet even while I was by myself in grid on this station, I began taking damage from some drones. At the time I was absolutely perplexed at how this could happen with nobody else on the grid with me. I immediately docked and was in shock.
RonPaul Rox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-02-14 03:25:37 UTC
Nightingale Actault wrote:


It could also be that he is taking your method very literally. In the exact case you presented Ron, Shah is correct. If you want to be able to online the POS shields instantly, you have to do so in a POS that has never had the password set before. It makes that method a one trick pony per se, especially if you plan on having anything else anchored at said tower as to tear down and reset the entire setup would likely be more pain than it is worth.


Shah isnt correct about anything lol, he's implying that i said skynets are invincible and he's just making arguments against that. The problem is i never said they were invincible, i said the carrier is un-killable.



a 71 mil tower that takes 6 minutes to set up and saves a 1.5-2 bil carrier is worth the "pain" of setting it up.

OR you could put up a large deathstar, have the carrier sit 10 meters outside the FF surrounded by guns, and have a 0.0001% risk of losing the carrier if you're too lazy to keep resetting the small. How often do u think u will even need to online the small pos? it's very presence discourages people from bothering to attack the carrier.


Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


it "falls apart" until you leave system. Since they took no losses, they can set back up as soon as you leave.


http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#24 - 2015-02-15 12:12:13 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


No. That is simply not true. Most of the time I fly solo or in small gangs. And it's even more painfull against smaller gang who often fly kiting ships and / or active tanked one who die very very fast against the alpha of the fighters.

I don't like this game mechanic. In the end it still projects 7k dps and 45k alpha across the system with very little risk. It does not matter how large both gangs are.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-02-16 21:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Voyager Arran
The best part is that having assigned fighters engage a target aggresses the carrier, rather than the ship to which they are assigned, so you can leave some 16 mil bait Procurer on the gate while you fish for fighter kills and then just jump through if you get low.

Even assuming that you're okay with the rest of the mechanic, the fact that you don't even have to risk your bait sorta ices the **** cake.
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-02-17 18:58:17 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


No. That is simply not true. Most of the time I fly solo or in small gangs. And it's even more painfull against smaller gang who often fly kiting ships and / or active tanked one who die very very fast against the alpha of the fighters.

I don't like this game mechanic. In the end it still projects 7k dps and 45k alpha across the system with very little risk. It does not matter how large both gangs are.


How the heck are you getting 7k dps and 45k alpha? At max skills and officer mods, I wasn't able to crack 4k DPS/14k volley with 15 fighters...and this is with insane bling.

[Thanatos, max fighter damage]
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I

Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Scope Chip I

Einherji x15
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#27 - 2015-02-17 19:02:23 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


No. That is simply not true. Most of the time I fly solo or in small gangs. And it's even more painfull against smaller gang who often fly kiting ships and / or active tanked one who die very very fast against the alpha of the fighters.

I don't like this game mechanic. In the end it still projects 7k dps and 45k alpha across the system with very little risk. It does not matter how large both gangs are.


How the heck are you getting 7k dps and 45k alpha? At max skills and officer mods, I wasn't able to crack 4k DPS/14k volley with 15 fighters...and this is with insane bling.

[Thanatos, max fighter damage]
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I

Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Scope Chip I

Einherji x15


Hes speaking about NYX fighters.


@ Carlos
Have you ever enjoyed fighting revenant fighters? Our machs were getting twoshotted :D

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-02-17 19:07:42 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Agent Unknown wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


No. That is simply not true. Most of the time I fly solo or in small gangs. And it's even more painfull against smaller gang who often fly kiting ships and / or active tanked one who die very very fast against the alpha of the fighters.

I don't like this game mechanic. In the end it still projects 7k dps and 45k alpha across the system with very little risk. It does not matter how large both gangs are.


How the heck are you getting 7k dps and 45k alpha? At max skills and officer mods, I wasn't able to crack 4k DPS/14k volley with 15 fighters...and this is with insane bling.

[Thanatos, max fighter damage]
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I

Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Scope Chip I

Einherji x15


Hes speaking about NYX fighters.


@ Carlos
Have you ever enjoyed fighting revenant fighters? Our machs were getting twoshotted :D


Fair enough. However, with the Nyx being worth 20b+, being unable to defend itself when tackled since fighters die pretty easily and it can field less than 3 full flights of fighters, and having to compromise its tank for drone damage mods make this pretty balanced.

Sure, it's not pretty, but it's no worse than the 0-risk hyperdunking or other questionable acts that are perfectly legal. If the Nyx pilot onlines the POS, drop some dreads on his face and bubble the POS...his tank will be laughable and melt in pretty short order.

As a bonus, the POS method must be done by a super because it can't dock...
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#29 - 2015-02-17 19:17:21 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:


Fair enough. However, with the Nyx being worth 20b+, being unable to defend itself when tackled since fighters die pretty easily and it can field less than 3 full flights of fighters, and having to compromise its tank for drone damage mods make this pretty balanced.

Sure, it's not pretty, but it's no worse than the 0-risk hyperdunking or other questionable acts that are perfectly legal. If the Nyx pilot onlines the POS, drop some dreads on his face and bubble the POS...his tank will be laughable and melt in pretty short order.

As a bonus, the POS method must be done by a super because it can't dock...


Have you ever actually tried bumping a super off a forcefield? Its near to impossible if hes paying a little bit attention. And with the forcefield activation method not even possible in your dream.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-02-17 21:55:17 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Agent Unknown wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
People are just mad that some smaller ships or groups have an extra tactic to allow 'punching up' at larger or more numerous targets that would've otherwise been unable to handle.

And counters aren't even limited to handling the carrier itself. Just merely scaring it into retreating or docking is enough to make the whole setup fall apart.


No. That is simply not true. Most of the time I fly solo or in small gangs. And it's even more painfull against smaller gang who often fly kiting ships and / or active tanked one who die very very fast against the alpha of the fighters.

I don't like this game mechanic. In the end it still projects 7k dps and 45k alpha across the system with very little risk. It does not matter how large both gangs are.


How the heck are you getting 7k dps and 45k alpha? At max skills and officer mods, I wasn't able to crack 4k DPS/14k volley with 15 fighters...and this is with insane bling.

[Thanatos, max fighter damage]
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Navigation Computer
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Unit D-34343's Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I

Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Durability Enhancer II
Capital Drone Scope Chip I

Einherji x15


Hes speaking about NYX fighters.


@ Carlos
Have you ever enjoyed fighting revenant fighters? Our machs were getting twoshotted :D


Fair enough. However, with the Nyx being worth 20b+, being unable to defend itself when tackled since fighters die pretty easily and it can field less than 3 full flights of fighters, and having to compromise its tank for drone damage mods make this pretty balanced.

Sure, it's not pretty, but it's no worse than the 0-risk hyperdunking or other questionable acts that are perfectly legal. If the Nyx pilot onlines the POS, drop some dreads on his face and bubble the POS...his tank will be laughable and melt in pretty short order.

As a bonus, the POS method must be done by a super because it can't dock...


You aren't going to get a Nyx Pilot who's at his keyboard and either 10 meters outside the edge of a Deathstar or just waiting to turn on the forcefield of his personal small pos. The dude is literally seconds away from invulnerability at all times.

Even if you go all-out and bubble siege his POS, all you're doing is forcing him to log off and use the downtime e-warp trick. This is assuming that you have the strength to siege out his POS in the first place and then permacamp the bubbles while always having the manpower on hand to handle any breakout attempt, which is a dubious assertion unless you're saying that the first step to countering this is to join PL or something.

...and, of course, that's overlooking that you could just save this gimmick for lowsec where being inside a forcefield means there's literally nothing that can be done about it.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
United Caldari Space Command.
#31 - 2015-02-17 22:52:25 UTC
Assigning fighters offgrid is super lame in my opinion. I've done it, my alliance mates do it every day and it's still lame.

The risk is minimal, close to zero, and you're getting a carriers worth of dps on a grid without risking said carrier. Should only work on the same grid in my opinion.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#32 - 2015-02-18 04:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Operative
Capitol One wrote:
Assigning fighters offgrid is super lame in my opinion. I've done it, my alliance mates do it every day and it's still lame.

The risk is minimal, close to zero, and you're getting a carriers worth of dps on a grid without risking said carrier. Should only work on the same grid in my opinion.


I agree about assigning fighters being lame, assigning fighter bombers though is super legit though!
RonPaul Rox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-02-18 07:45:51 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:


Fair enough. However, with the Nyx being worth 20b+, being unable to defend itself when tackled since fighters die pretty easily and it can field less than 3 full flights of fighters, and having to compromise its tank for drone damage mods make this pretty balanced.

Sure, it's not pretty, but it's no worse than the 0-risk hyperdunking or other questionable acts that are perfectly legal. If the Nyx pilot onlines the POS, drop some dreads on his face and bubble the POS...his tank will be laughable and melt in pretty short order.

As a bonus, the POS method must be done by a super because it can't dock...


1. you cant bubble in low sec

2. that doesnt matter because you can stront the pos and the carrier will have up to 4 days and 15 hours hours to de-agress and safe log off

3. it takes 15 minutes to de-agress and safe-log, so that should be plenty of time

http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-02-18 08:52:51 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Trey Kutoi wrote:
if by skynetting, you mean assigning fighters, I personally think that it sucks, but that's because I don't have any fighters of my own. its just another form of power projection.

did a little googlefu,apparently fighters have absolute garbage for scan res.

I assume that means that for skynetting to happen, you need to be tackled pretty hard, (maybe triple web?) and probably would have died from other means. the fighters just make you die faster

Wut? Are you confusing scan res with tracking?

Now it just takes a little longer for fighters to start shooting you, but once they do, they can even track interceptors. They can one shot an active tanked t3 cruiser! All while the Nyx / Thanatos is very save. Not 100%, but still very save.

In the end, this projects ~7300 dps (48k volley) to another grid.



Popping an active tanked t3 isn't saying much, it is just a cruiser hull afterall. Anyway, I've been chased by fighters plenty of times. Just warp to your pos and let your pos guns pick em off, dam skeeters anyway.
infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-02-18 09:00:04 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Assigning fighters offgrid is super lame in my opinion. I've done it, my alliance mates do it every day and it's still lame.

The risk is minimal, close to zero, and you're getting a carriers worth of dps on a grid without risking said carrier. Should only work on the same grid in my opinion.




Why is everyone bitching about this tactic when it has been going on ever since fighters were put in the game? Why all the uproar now, did I miss something, I am a bit dense, please fill me in. What's next, are we going to reopen the thread on how lame afk cloakers are, or how lame it is to be scammed in jita? Maybe it has something to do with the influx of new players and they run to the forums the first time they get broadsided by game mechanics they don't fully understand. Let's reopen the thread on how lame offgrid boosters are while were at it.
infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-02-18 09:04:21 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
I believe I had this happen to me. I was in my Executioner in low-sec and was playing around with these fools on a station. Well one of them undocked some capital ship I believe, anyway, I ended up warping off to a nearby station, and yet even while I was by myself in grid on this station, I began taking damage from some drones. At the time I was absolutely perplexed at how this could happen with nobody else on the grid with me. I immediately docked and was in shock.





OK, so are you asking for a nerf on something, or just telling war stories? Fighters will warp after you, read up on it.
infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-02-18 09:10:30 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
funny that so many broken game mechanics are connected to poses, isn't it?






What game mechanic is broken? A carrier that assigns his fighters to another pilot? When did you start playing this game, first time out of highsec maybe? ? This has been going on for years and it's not broken, it's working as intended.
RonPaul Rox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-02-18 09:14:41 UTC
infra52x wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Assigning fighters offgrid is super lame in my opinion. I've done it, my alliance mates do it every day and it's still lame.

The risk is minimal, close to zero, and you're getting a carriers worth of dps on a grid without risking said carrier. Should only work on the same grid in my opinion.




Why is everyone bitching about this tactic when it has been going on ever since fighters were put in the game? Why all the uproar now, did I miss something, I am a bit dense, please fill me in. What's next, are we going to reopen the thread on how lame afk cloakers are, or how lame it is to be scammed in jita? Maybe it has something to do with the influx of new players and they run to the forums the first time they get broadsided by game mechanics they don't fully understand. Let's reopen the thread on how lame offgrid boosters are while were at it.


well, now that you mention it, off-grid boosters ARE lame P

WHO'S WITH ME?! Pirate

http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-02-18 13:09:44 UTC
infra52x wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
funny that so many broken game mechanics are connected to poses, isn't it?






What game mechanic is broken? A carrier that assigns his fighters to another pilot? When did you start playing this game, first time out of highsec maybe? ? This has been going on for years and it's not broken, it's working as intended.


Now that you mention it, that's true ...this has been going on for quite a long time. It's probably only come up recently because the DDAs affect fighters and make them do even more damage, but fighter assignment and "attack and follow" have existed since fighters were in the game.

Sure, you can't kill the carrier/super, but you can either kill the fighters or the ship the fighters are assigned to.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#40 - 2015-02-18 14:20:30 UTC
infra52x wrote:



OK, so are you asking for a nerf on something, or just telling war stories? Fighters will warp after you, read up on it.

Calm down son.
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