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A question regarding the privacy of EVE-mail.

First post
Author
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-02-16 14:17:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:



.....and when they aren't fighting with each other and outsiders on facebook they are pestering about "why don't you have a Facebook page??!?!". My standard reply is "YOU, YOU are the reason!" lol


I have twitter for CCP, and facebook for family. I never update my own facebook page, I just read the updates that hit my inbox, and then call them or send a card as appropriate for whatever just changed. It's like an RSS feed for my family. Big smile

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2015-02-16 14:19:04 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:

It's like when governments are coming up with hilariously unsupportable laws about people sharing naked pictures of exes, and the afformentioned exes being shocked that if they send a naked picture to someone, it might get seen by someone who isn't the recipient. Well, duh. Human beings are humans. We are stupid, forgetful, inquisitive, nosey, prideful, jealous, possessed of inappropriate senses of humour, and occasionally spiteful and vindictive. Never attribute to malice what could be explained through stupidity. This **** is going to happen. It may not be what you intended, but you kinda have to take it with the territory; you don't want a photo of your parts posted on the internet, don't take the damn photo in the first place.

uh, wow, shut up

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#143 - 2015-02-16 14:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Samsara Toldya wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Regardless of what you're doing in EVE, you should never EVEmail anything, to any player that you'd consider private or personal, because there's nothing to stop the other player forwarding it on to someone else or sharing it publicly via copypasta, or the API system.


As things are getting interesting:

I do have several evemails from and to CCPs / GMs in my inbox.
I am not allowed to share them (forbidden by EULA)
I am allowed to share my full API.
I can not control wether or not those with access to my API will publish those mails on platforms like reddit/pastebin using an anonymous account.

So... if I want internal correspondence with CCP/GM to be published I simply give away my full API and won't risk a ban as I didn't break any rules.

Simple as that?

if you have a verified email address attached to your account the gm/devs will correspond using that.

i have emails from gm's and devs in response to support tickets in my out of game email and absolutely nothing in-game.

they do ask you for one and its hardly their fault if you haven't provided it.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#144 - 2015-02-16 14:21:01 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

That's very smart but please come back to the OP: in 6 years, I did not need to learn of mails and full APIs, and so I didn't learn of it until I accidentally stumbled on that precious little info... 6 years and a few hundred evemails too late.


There are two lessons to be learned from this:

If you are not a UI designer:
Pretend that communication sent over the internet is going to end up publically on your facebook page, unless you've encrypted it.


Amen. I learned through somebody else's experience that:

a) if it's on Internet, everybody can know it
b) Internet rarely loses information and never forgets it

Quote:
If you are a UI designer:
Things which have the potential to do damage should always have attention explicitly drawn to them. Blaming the user is not acceptable design practice.


Hey, it's CCP what we're talking here... Lol
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2015-02-16 14:22:29 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy:

- I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them
- I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet
- Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname
- I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it

I consider myself a tech-luddite.

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.


Same as any other email service: don't send it if you don't want the entire world to have access to it.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2015-02-16 14:23:40 UTC
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own' on any computer system that you do not have direct physical control of (and if it's connected to the Internet, all bets are off).


No offense, Jenna, but I adjusted your post to more closely match reality.


So you don't have an 'expectation of privacy' of the computer systems operated by your bank, or your employer, or your doctor?

Strange world you live in. Roll


Point 1 - No. My bank routinely shares my information with departments within that I have no interest in talking to. It will also share that information with the relevant authories with (or without) my knowledge (read up on the Bank Secrecy Act if you think your finanancial records are private - they are required toi report certain things to the government and it is ILLEGAL for them to tell you they do it - how's that for privacy?)

Point 2 - LOL. Do you honestly think anything you do on your employer's system is private? Even your HR data is viewable by, at the very least, your mangement chain, your HR rep, and anyone the company deems has a "business need to know".

Point 3 - No. My doctor routinely shares my health information with my insurance company, other doctors, and the relevant authorities. That's what all those forms you sign and don't read say.

It is a strange world we live in, but unfortunately, it's the only one we have.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#147 - 2015-02-16 14:24:21 UTC
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2015-02-16 14:26:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.



Nor does there need to be one. It's on the individual to figure somethings out for themselves, Like I did 8 years ago (I actually asked the dude who brought me in to EVE about how secure EVEmail was and he said "it's e-mail in a computer game, what do you think?") and which you failed to do for 6 years up till now.

Stop blaming others (like CCP) for personal failings.

it's a bit different when the issue might involve personal information, and it becomes less about Eve Is Hard, Deal With It

at the point where someone's ignorance might lead to them revealing personal information, even if it is partially or fully their fault, and where it really has nothing to do with the game, it's fine to idiot-proof it a little more. especially considering they're paying customers. failing to provide full information where it might become a real-life matter (and where it's not obvious the info you enterisn't designed to be secure from other users) is deffo the service provider's fault
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2015-02-16 14:27:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil


Seems more comparable to some of the warnings you see on power tools, like "do not operate chainsaw while intoxicated and holding a muskrat".
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-02-16 14:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Ned Thomas wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil


Seems more comparable to some of the warnings you see on power tools, like "do not operate chainsaw while intoxicated and holding a muskrat".


Please do not attempt to stop chain with your leg. My favorite are the ones that say :

!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!
Saw blade is sharp.

Shocked

No ****? Is that how those new fangled things work?

I mean I would expect a warning if the handle was wrapped in rusty razor wire, but...

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2015-02-16 14:30:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil

that person suffered third-degree burns and was hospitalised for a week

during the case mcdonalds was shown to have known about the hazard for years

mcdonalds also admitted that the coffee wasn't suitable for human consumption
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#152 - 2015-02-16 14:32:22 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.



Nor does there need to be one. It's on the individual to figure somethings out for themselves, Like I did 8 years ago (I actually asked the dude who brought me in to EVE about how secure EVEmail was and he said "it's e-mail in a computer game, what do you think?") and which you failed to do for 6 years up till now.

Stop blaming others (like CCP) for personal failings.

it's a bit different when the issue might involve personal information, and it becomes less about Eve Is Hard, Deal With It

at the point where someone's ignorance might lead to them revealing personal information, even if it is partially or fully their fault, and where it really has nothing to do with the game, it's fine to idiot-proof it a little more. especially considering they're paying customers. failing to provide full information where it might become a real-life matter (and where it's not obvious the info you enterisn't designed to be secure from other users) is deffo the service provider's fault


At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#153 - 2015-02-16 14:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy:


- I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them
Forums are a form of social network so you're mistaken.

- I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet
Irrelevant, if your friends use social networks you'll probably find that there's way more than 3 pictures of you on the internet.

- Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar 
surname
Googling my real name, with or without my unusual middle name, returns between 42k and 15 million+ results (depending on the exact search terms). I'm pretty sure none relate to me, because A: I generally use pseudonyms and B: when I do use my real name I make damn sure that I can lock it down so it's not publically viewable or accessible to search engine spiders.

- I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it
Which makes no difference at all, smartphones don't automagically put your information on the internet, they require user interaction for that to happen

I consider myself a tech-luddite.
It shows in your expectations of privacy on the internet. If you want privacy on the internet you have to take steps to ensure it, not rely on others to do it for you.

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with
anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't
understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.
It bothers me that you have an expectation of privacy in a virtual environment where nothing belongs to you, but actually belongs to a third party who can, and will share your details if they see fit.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.
There is, it's in the EULA as has been posted elsewhere in this thread.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2015-02-16 14:35:43 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil


Seems more comparable to some of the warnings you see on power tools, like "do not operate chainsaw while intoxicated and holding a muskrat".


Please do not attempt to stop chain with your leg. My favorite are the ones that say :

!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!
Saw blade is sharp.

Shocked

No ****? Is that how those new fangled things work?

I mean I would expect a warning if the handle was wrapped in rusty razor wire, but...


I've honest to god seen "this drill is not intended to alleviate or cure any known medical condition".

At least they left open the possibility that the drill could have medicinal value in the future.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2015-02-16 14:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Jenn aSide wrote:
At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?

just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client

i think people'll have a basic degree of trust with the service provider and are aware of the possibility the other person will have access to the mail

it's not at all obvious that the mail may appear to another user

e: durr. that should say "are aware the other person may share the contents of the mail"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#156 - 2015-02-16 14:38:16 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Evil

that person suffered third-degree burns and was hospitalised for a week

during the case mcdonalds was shown to have known about the hazard for years

mcdonalds also admitted that the coffee wasn't suitable for human consumption


McDonalds made it's coffee hot enough to still be hot when you get home. They still do, but it's 158 degrees instead of 185. At no point (even now) is holding a cup of hot liquid WITH YOUR KNEES a good idea.

That a Civil Jury awarded someone money for their stupidity (and that wasn't the 1st time) isn't an indicator of McDonalds wrong doing, it's an indicator that at least 12 suckers are born every minute.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2015-02-16 14:39:43 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I've honest to god seen "this drill is not intended to alleviate or cure any known medical condition".

At least they left open the possibility that the drill could have medicinal value in the future.

i heard drills are used in brain surgery. i guess it's to cover the manufacturer's arse in case some dumb surgery's procerer tries to save a few bucks?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#158 - 2015-02-16 14:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Jenn aSide wrote:
McDonalds made it's coffee hot enough to still be hot when you get home. They still do, but it's 158 degrees instead of 185. At no point (even now) is holding a cup of hot liquid WITH YOUR KNEES a good idea.

i googled it and it sounds like most people just drank it

drank coffee that the company knew was insuitable for human consumption

mcdonalds has an eat-in area and was fully aware people would drink it when it was served to them

that makes it mcdonalds' fault

EDIT MISLOCATED AN APOSTOPHE DO'NT TELL ANYONE
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#159 - 2015-02-16 14:44:04 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?

just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client


So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it?

At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#160 - 2015-02-16 14:47:53 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy:

- I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them
- I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet
- Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname
- I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it

I consider myself a tech-luddite.

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.


no warnings anywhere yea,,,,

https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/