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A question regarding the privacy of EVE-mail.

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Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2015-02-16 12:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Go back to reading comprehension 101. I've never needed a full API, so when should I have learned that OTHERS giving THEIR full APIs would compromise MY evemails to them?


What part of "A full API gives access to ALL evemails in a person's mailbox" is confusing you? You obviously understand the concept of a full API or you wouldn't be worried about it. Is the inbox part of the mailbox? Why yes, yes it is. As is the sent items box.

The logic here is not herculean - as a picture, it pretty much paints itself.

For the record, it also gives access to evemails they have sent to the trash bin,. assuming it hasn't been emptied.

and you, as well as the other idiots verbally aggressing the OP, fail to understand that they were simply asking a question and that there is no complaint whatsoever.


It's a question based on their own personal lack of understanding about a system they are willingly using to share information they deem personal and sensitive. I have little sympathy.

Here's a similar scenario.
Bob tells Anna a bunch of super sekrit personal stuff in corp chat (or even in a private conversation).
Anna lets Charlie user her laptop.
Charlie copies all the chat logs, because :sekrit squirrel:.
Is it CCP's fault that Charlie now has the information Bob only wanted Anna to have?

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-02-16 13:06:08 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
I always attribute this to a generation-thing; for all their tech-savvy, modern youngsters seem blithely oblivious to how easily things they post on the internet can get around. I for one have never assumed anything I've texted, emailed, facebooked, tweeted, put in the post, said on the phone, or written on a post-it stuck to the side of my monitor has only been read by the person I intended it for.


I cannot possibly express how hard I have tried to make this same point with my kids. They expect the system to protect them and then act surprised when it fails. I literally had to tell my teenage daughter to take our home address off her facebook page.

Forget drinking, you should have to be 21 to use the internet.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#123 - 2015-02-16 13:06:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I just read that apparently full API access allows corporations to read the EVE-mail of potential new recruits.

I wonder if that includes any EVE-mails sent to that person, or being quoted by that person. Question


Yep. Any evemail.


That's interesting, as nobody CCP warned me that full APIs would compromise my privacy if I as much as sent a evemail to someone and that someone intended to join a player corporation and provided a full API.

Let's say that for some reason, I trust someone and evemail him some personal data, and that someone joins a corporation unaware of what a full API does mean to any personal data being shared through CCP's services...

I really wonder now whether CCP warns of that, somewhere.



I don't know what else you thought full API meant? TBH this is pretty common knowledge, and given that GMs can also read your evemails, I can't think why anyone would ever put anything personal into one.




That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own'
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2015-02-16 13:09:44 UTC
So....is OP also concerned about every other email service where anything you send to other people could be viewed by anyone else who has access to that other person's email account? (i.e. a business email account)
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-02-16 13:12:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own' on any computer system that you do not have direct physical control of (and if it's connected to the Internet, all bets are off).


No offense, Jenna, but I adjusted your post to more closely match reality.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#126 - 2015-02-16 13:13:30 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Just like with real emails, they're possibly readable by a slew of routers that the message passes through, and by the NSA, and your recipient friend has a permanent copy and can fully post all your private info and photos on the internets for everyone to see.

So, do not send private information through the in-game email.

If you have, already, delete it, and ask your friend to delete it. He/she probably will, if they're your friend.

And if they don't, a bunch of recruiters and directors, who are probably so swamped by join requests and corporate drama issues that they don't even have time to eat, may see your in-game mail and disregard it. They're typically looking for signs that you're a spy, corp thief, or awoxer, really, and probably won't even care to read whatever private info you've disclosed.


Maybe we're losing focus here.

What bothers me is not that "my" API gives "my" information but that "their" API will give out "my" information too, and I have not been warned of that before using the evemail service.


As a side note, isn't this standard 'carebear' thinking. "A video game company didn't warn me about sending mails in their video game that I didn't bother to think about after 6 years of opportunities of thinking about it".

It's as if these people don't have the ability to think in terms of taking care of themselves and their own interests, it's always someone else's job (so that they can then complain about what a crap job someone is doing for them when they should do it for themselves).

Personally, i've never sent a single EVE mail that I would want read out loud to the world, because this is a video game.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#127 - 2015-02-16 13:14:18 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own' on any computer system that you do not have direct physical control of (and if it's connected to the Internet, all bets are off).


No offense, Jenna, but I adjusted your post to more closely match reality.


I happily stand corrected Big smile
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#128 - 2015-02-16 13:22:23 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
I always attribute this to a generation-thing; for all their tech-savvy, modern youngsters seem blithely oblivious to how easily things they post on the internet can get around. I for one have never assumed anything I've texted, emailed, facebooked, tweeted, put in the post, said on the phone, or written on a post-it stuck to the side of my monitor has only been read by the person I intended it for.


I cannot possibly express how hard I have tried to make this same point with my kids. They expect the system to protect them and then act surprised when it fails. I literally had to tell my teenage daughter to take our home address off her facebook page.

Forget drinking, you should have to be 21 to use the internet.


I thought I was the only one who thought that, I had to do that with my own teenaged daughter. it's like they don't have a sense of danger, and they are honestly surprised when things that the rest of us can see light years away happen. This thread reminds me of my teenage daughter lol.

What bothers me is the double standard. I don't do face book (and I honest to God only have twitter for CCP and a few other game companies, new outlets and TV shows I like to keep up with) and thus have never been embroiled in a 'Facebook argument. EVERY female in my family (and my elderly father.....) have Facebook pages and are ALWAYS in to it with each other....


.....and when they aren't fighting with each other and outsiders on facebook they are pestering about "why don't you have a Facebook page??!?!". My standard reply is "YOU, YOU are the reason!" lol
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#129 - 2015-02-16 13:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
^^ The worst thing about facebook is having to explain to your mother why you've turned down her friend requests.

I've also had employers question why my facebook is locked down, non searchable on google and invisible to all but my friends; my answer is generally along the lines of "I've spent years hiding my identity on the internet, I'm not going to change that because you feel the need to pry into my life outside of work"

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2015-02-16 13:28:14 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
^^ The worst thing about facebook is having to explain to your mother why you've turned down her friend requests.


What does it say when your mom declines your friend request?
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-02-16 13:34:43 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
^^ The worst thing about facebook is having to explain to your mother why you've turned down her friend requests.


What does it say when your mom declines your friend request?
lol

She doesn't want you to know that she's a closet twilight and 50 shades fan, or that she secretly writes risque Inspector Poirot fanfic.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2015-02-16 13:38:48 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
risque Inspector Poirot fanfic


My little grey cells feel violated by this concept. Not necessarily in a bad way, of course.
Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2015-02-16 14:00:20 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own' on any computer system that you do not have direct physical control of (and if it's connected to the Internet, all bets are off).


No offense, Jenna, but I adjusted your post to more closely match reality.


So you don't have an 'expectation of privacy' of the computer systems operated by your bank, or your employer, or your doctor?

Strange world you live in. Roll
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#134 - 2015-02-16 14:03:47 UTC
Well if you really wanted eve mails secure and private you could make up your own language and write in that language? Big smile
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#135 - 2015-02-16 14:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
So you don't have an 'expectation of privacy' of the computer systems operated by your bank, or your employer, or your doctor?
Nope, nope and nope. Your bank will quite happily sell your personal details on to any interested parties, your employer generally keeps an eye on all activity carried out on their systems for security purposes, and your doctor shares some of your personal information with relevant staff and authorities.

Quote:
Strange world you live in. Roll
That would be the real world, what world do you live in?

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2015-02-16 14:10:33 UTC
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

That's right. There is not such thing as an 'expectation of privacy' in a video game software property you never personally 'own' on any computer system that you do not have direct physical control of (and if it's connected to the Internet, all bets are off).


No offense, Jenna, but I adjusted your post to more closely match reality.


So you don't have an 'expectation of privacy' of the computer systems operated by your bank, or your employer, or your doctor?

Strange world you live in. Roll


Theoretically, no. Laws and privacy policies aside, digital media is digital media and if someone has access to it (either with your permission or without) then they can use it to whatever end they see fit.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#137 - 2015-02-16 14:12:44 UTC
To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy:

- I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them
- I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet
- Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname
- I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it

I consider myself a tech-luddite.

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#138 - 2015-02-16 14:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Jimmy Farrere wrote:

So you don't have an 'expectation of privacy' of the computer systems operated by your bank

How do you think your credit rating gets determined? Ever recieved a Credit Card application from a company you've never contacted a month before your Credit Card is due to expire? I have.

Quote:
, or your employer,

If you think you boss, your HR department, and the guy on the desk next to you can't and don't read all manner of things on your work computer, you must live a very oblivious life.

Quote:
or your doctor?

You see that pretty receptionist at the doctors? She knows about your erectile dysfunction. And you see the label on the bag with your tablet in it with your name on. If you think your doctor attached that label, you are going to be disappointed.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2015-02-16 14:15:40 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
This gets funnier and funnier with the spy crap. "Catch the lazy spy." You'd have to be an oaf to be reamed by a lazy spy. You'd deserve it, and the rest of the player base shouldn't have to endure faulty processes just 'cause the lazy CEO is an oaf and needs a crutch. It's a ridiculous argument, and I suggest any spy looking for a target use this thread to find people making this argument. API is anti-spy? There's your meat. Bon appetite.

The real spy cannot be caught with the API. In fact, the real spy will feed the API in such a way as to create a footprint the so called intel-folks will not only fall for, but will be inclined to promote within the ranks and bestow with privileges and the keys to the kingdom. Anybody who doesn't understand this is really playing out of their depth, and the auto-feel good seeming security blanket this API seems to offer is just the thing to refer you to the paragraph above.

That being said, and not as opinion but fact, there is no real reason to defend this other than to say,
laziness should over rule logic. That's so 21st Century, too. We must be in vogue, no?

"Ignorance is bliss," my momma always told me.

you know so much about apis and intel and the REAL SPY and the LAZY SPY you must be like the top intel guy of your one-man corp i am in total awe
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#140 - 2015-02-16 14:16:58 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.



Nor does there need to be one. It's on the individual to figure somethings out for themselves, Like I did 8 years ago (I actually asked the dude who brought me in to EVE about how secure EVEmail was and he said "it's e-mail in a computer game, what do you think?") and which you failed to do for 6 years up till now.

Stop blaming others (like CCP) for personal failings.