EVE General Discussion

Who is this "others" you think you have an edge on?

It's like "I'm going to buy a car so I have an edge compared to others" and you live in the New York suburbs. I suppose you can feel smug when passing the bicycle guy, but otherwise there's no edge; your car is just the average, expected thing you're supposed to have in today's world.

Meanwhile, you're arguing against free public transportation because you want to retain the choice to have an edge vs. the bicycle guy who can't get a car for whatever reason. Or because "choice is good."

So started up this topic in the features and idea's section because that's usually where future ideas are discussed I did not realize people were discussing in the general area. I had an idea though for removing attributes which i'll outline again since this forum is remaining open.

If they removed remapping and standardized all attributes to a flat value.

-It would not be fair to the people who spent time training cybernetics to 4 or 5 to suddenly have an increase in training time due to a low 'base' attribute value.
-currently training cybernetics V takes over a year of training with +5's to make up for the 10+days it takes to train cybernetic V

It's for those reasons I recommend the following changes.
-double the effect of all implants (2,4,6,8,10)
-use standard implants (current +4) as the base to shape everything around

The end effect would be as follows assuming you currently have max mapping for a skill
-improved implants users would see a slight buff to train time reducing the payoff time for cybernetics V to about half a year
-standard implants users would see zero change
-basic through limited implant users would see a slight increase in training time however that is only IF MAPPED PERFECTLY FOR SKILL as i'll explain below.

It may seem like the limited - basic implant users are getting a hard nerf keep in mind that nerf is ONLY if you are max mapped for a skill currently. Most people who are going for max training through aren't using these implants anyways. if you're currently mapped incorrectly or mapped evenly across all 4/5 you would still see a slight decrease in training as the base training rate would be raised across the board from the current 17points per attribute to a flat 23 across all attributes. The end result would look like this for attribute points with each implant.

improved - 33
standard - 31
basic - 29
limited beta - 27
limited - 25
none - 23

i mean by and edge on other is that i am training faster than other pilots because i am willing to risk more.

to tie it with real world

no implants = public transportation
+1 =bicycle
+2 = motorcycle
+3 = average car
+5 = some sport or expensive car.

now i don't have anything against public transportation nor any other choice people would want use that so be it
i want to have the ability to chose one of these choices

You avoid it because you choose to be bad at it, your implants have nothing to do with it.

i think his point was care-bears will avoid regardless of the implant they have . they will always find an excuse to not pvp

Except multiple people have pointed out they would pvp if attribute implants didn't exist. I don't pvp on seiko because she is my high-sp character, but I do pvp on my other characters. So you're simply ignoring the people saying they would pvp if it weren't for attribute implants.

Which ship would that be? A Cruiser, that'd be about on par with a set of +3's? I hope you haven't wasted any xp on training Battleship, or T2 or T3 ship skills, because the cost of one of those must be terrifying, since it is far more than a Cruiser and a set of Implants. Or are you being, perhaps, a touch dishonest?

I pvp with + 5 attribute implants injected in my head. It's not matter of implant is matter of not wanting to risk your implant
now if you do not want to risk your implants jump clone .

like i suggested before adding a bonus to your ship when having 2 attribute implants injected

would encourage players to pvp in these attribute implants

One question and one counter-point for consideration:

One
Why does having high skillpoints lead you to choose not to pvp?

Two
Gameplay is about the way each of us interact with the game. The more complex the options for gameplay that still work, the more opportunities there are for players to discover unique solutions (emergent play) as well as play the anticipated ways. Complex systems also usually provide for more non-linear play, which leads to a more varied and interesting game.

The trick is in ensuring that systems aren't complex just for the sake of it, so that they all provide for interesting gameplay.

Players stating they would pvp in the absence of learning implants doesn't itself mean the current game design is at fault. The current game design provides solutions to that, especially through jump clones. Choosing not to use that option is the way someone has chosen to play the game, not the games fault.

That doesn't make the current situation ideal in terms of game design, but learning implants aren't the cause of non-pvp. That is down to player choice because they don't use the other forms of gameplay available.

Let's not make the game more linear and less interesting on the whole, just because some fail to use all paths available.

One issue which CCP has already mentioned is the use of jump clones and the way they are used to change implant sets. So change that aspect of the play and those that could otherwise pvp might also have a solution. Make implants removable without destruction for example. That would solve the problem for those people. Without considering the impact on other areas of play, that isn't necessarily good design either, but there has to be more than one solution that still keeps interesting play in the game.

implants system is fine as it is but the proplem with remap system it is kinda dull to new players
Say i am a newbie and i wanna train for a guardian assuming i have all +5 .

i'd have to ramp at least 4 times to be perfect guardian pilot

1- willpower -perception : to get my Amarr cruiser to 5
2 - Intel - memory : to unlock logistics skills and train cap , armor skills
3- perception - willpower : to train logistic skills
4- memory - perception : to train combat or logistic drones.

you would need 4 remaps to get the highest sp/hour which kinda bullshit