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Reason for skill loss with tier 3 ships

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Syrilian
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-02-13 14:43:32 UTC
Hello, I am a new player and not anywhere near tier 3 yet but I recently read that you lose skills for being podded in a tier 3 ship. Is there a specific reason in the lore why this happens? I get game mechanic-wise that tier 3 is considered somewhat "end game" and therefore to have really severe consequences but is there any other reason specified?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-02-13 15:05:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
you lose sp from a random t3 subsystem skill when the ship dies.

its a balancing factor for them as they are silly ships ,
evidenced by the fact i only get out of mine when i am explicitly told to by a superior.

i wouldn't call them end game by any means, they are excellent (ill concede maby even a little too good) but far from the last word.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-02-13 15:49:33 UTC
The skill loss isn't THAT severe. Something like 4-5 days depending on your remap IIRC (that's level 5 in one subsystem skill). Might sound like a lot to a new player but not a big deal to someone that's been playing a while, unless you lose one every day. Roll

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Titan's Lament
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#4 - 2015-02-13 15:57:36 UTC
I'm not so sure that there has been a lore based explanation for the skill loss, but if I had to guess it would be explained by the use of Sleeper technology in the creation of the ships and the way that tech interacts with your capsule and clone.

General rule of thumb for quirks in the lore: blame Jovians or Sleepers (Sleepers are actually Jovians but whatevs)
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#5 - 2015-02-13 16:04:57 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
but if I had to guess it would be explained by the use of Sleeper technology in the creation of the ships and the way that tech interacts with your capsule and clone.

Pretty much this I think. I can't remember the wording of the warning, but when you assemble a T3 ship you're told in a popup a short dialogue that explains the risk in activating this ship, why and the consequences to your skills if it's destroyed.

Essentially a capsuleer is "linked" in a more direct way to T3 ships through their neuro-whateversits.

Lore-buffs in the EVE fiction subforum might be able to give you a more detailed answer. I just fly the things.

🍌

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"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#6 - 2015-02-13 16:49:32 UTC
I think the lore explanation is as follows.

Most ships in the game are relatively simple machines in comparison to t3 cruisers. Their construction and operation are decades further ahead than anything else we fly. Even the t3 destroyers are a poor imitation. In order for a capsuleer to control such an advanced ship, a more intricate and deep connection is needed. When a normal ship is destroyed, the capsule can swiftly disconnect from the ship and eject. Capsuleers are unable to make such a swift and safe ejection from t3 cruisers. In the process of the hasty disconnect, damage is done to the areas in use. The subsystem skills.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#7 - 2015-02-13 17:54:01 UTC
Also, it's "tech 3" not "tier 3".

Tier 1, 2, 3, were meaningful concepts back when there was a progression within each class, especially BCs and BS. There was a cheap battleship for each race (about 50 million ISK), a middle one (about 100 mil) and an expensive one (about 150 mil). Those were the tiers.
Deadspace Acclamator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-02-14 01:40:10 UTC
Does this death penalty only apply to tech 3 strategic cruisers or tech 3 tactical destroyer's as well?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-02-14 01:52:55 UTC
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:
Does this death penalty only apply to tech 3 strategic cruisers or tech 3 tactical destroyer's as well?

Just cruisers.

And if you wear enough tin foil, you may be able to convince yourself that the new t3 destroyers are a "test run" for the t3 cruiser rebalance, so it's vaguely possible the penalty will be removed.

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Titan's Lament
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-02-14 04:33:21 UTC
As far as why the T3 strategic cruisers were introduced from an outside lore perspective I can only give my guesses.

Before T3s we still had learning skills to train so the first year in game was much slower progression. A lot of people complained that it took too long for new players to get into Battleships and be able to solo the more profitable content. So I think CCP wanted to introduce something that would change that a bit but they couldn't just add Battleships with shorter training so they had to come up with something that added to the game as far as choice and variance is concerned.

So they came up with the idea of T3 cruisers which you can train into very fast but you loose skill points if you get blown up in one. So it is a shorter path but it also adds the risk versus reward thing that CCP touts all the time. The subsystems also added some choice and variance so when you saw the ship on D scan you had no idea what you were going up against so it added a whole new dimension to the game. All in all I think it was a really good idea however I've never even sat in one due to the potential skill point loss.

Not really sure how many people feel the same way that I do about the skill point loss mechanics but I know I'm not the only one. Since CCP removed the clone upgrade mechanics it seemed to increase some people's willingness to get more involved in PvP as the ship's destroyed numbers went up immediately. So my guess is that they feel that the skill point loss mechanics in general seem to cause some hesitation and slow down in game mechanics and since anything that increases carnage is good in this game, my guess is they'd head in that direction.

So the introduce T3 destroyers and now there is no more skill point loss. That is my best guess as to the whys of it.

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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2015-02-14 11:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Decoy
My apologies to the OP for all the derailing I've had to remove from this thread. To those genuinely trying to assist new citizens to New Eden, please do so in a constructive way that allows for meaningful dialogue about the topic at hand.

This thread is not about WoW.

This thread is not about "end game" or the definitions that go along with it from either perspective.
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This thread is about whether or not there is lore to support the SP losses when losing a T3 ship. Attempts to derail this thread further will not be tolerated.

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2015-02-15 05:37:08 UTC
the balancing decision when T3s were introduced was that eve players had too much isk and losing some isk on a ship wasn't really all that interesting, so lets try losing skill points. Some points to also consider. 1. I'm not sure CCP realized how min/maxed this ships could get. 2. I'm not sure what CCP's price target for t3 cruisers was at the time, but it sounded pretty cheap (okay that is a bit subjective, and relative to other ship prices at the time). 3. CCP didn't really anticipate players figuring out and living in wormholes on the scale that they do. 4. CCP originally planned 5 subsystems, launched with 3, and later released a 4th.

Also t3 is supposed to be a generalist class, but see the previous comment on min/maxing. strat cruisers are supposed to be up for a balancing pass so we can only speculate on what will happen in the future. not sure if CCP will try to revert to the generalist idea, or give into the min/maxing that can be done with t3s. not to mention the SP loss mechanic.

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