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Latest CSM notes : Rumours of attribute points/implants being removed.

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CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#681 - 2015-02-13 00:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Memphis Baas wrote:
And 23 million SP at the max rate. Character Bazaar sales are typically priced at 20 million SP / year converted to ISK via the subscription costs. So clearly the 16 m SP / year isn't considered the "average" or "what everyone is doing."


That's true, and I wouldn't characterize the 16 M SP/yr case as typical actual gameplay either. However, it does apply to new players who have no idea that remaps or attributes exist. :)

In fact, one issue with the current attribute system design is that doing the optimal thing (sticking to your remap, after remapping and implanting optimally) feels blah, because the accelerated skill speed (up to 2700 SP/h) is your "new normal" and any deviation just makes you feel like you're missing out, even if you're training faster than the no implants/no remaps case.

It's a bad sign when playing optimally is less fun (because you're forced not to take all the skills you want) than not knowing how to play optimally at all.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#682 - 2015-02-13 01:24:41 UTC
CCP Darwin, you have thought of all the angles, and after reading your comments, and replies, I have to agree with you.

Get rid of attribs completely, give equal training speed for all skills.

I have been playing eve for almost 7 years, and yeah, the remapping and implants thing, has thrown a wrench into training plans many times. Having to train at half speed or whatever because I'm not specced for it has just been a required irritant. Push your changes thru, its good for the game, and good for new players especially. CCP should never do things or have policies that make the game confusing or harder for new players. EVE is hard enough, and newbros need to be eased into it so they can get up to speed and not quit from frustration.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#683 - 2015-02-13 02:06:24 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
As I said before, this system rewards a pile of skill points for training skills in an order that is explicitly wrong for whatever you want to do (because whatever you want to do will always include a substantial amount of off-remap skills.)

Which is why all new toons get 3 Remaps (Initial, +2 bonus). They also get free implants from the training missions, and any other pve they do.

And yes, comparing +5 +remap vs 0 + no remap is a huge difference, but that's someone being rewarded or screwing themselves for bad decisions. Now you want to adjust the SKILLS so that guns/ships are not totally different map from support skills. Great. There's an idea. But punishing players who are willing invest the time and isk in a toon to get it trained the way they want Long Term is not right. And I'm sorry, saying it's hard for a new guy isn't a good enough reason in my book. Eve is Hard. It's always been hard. It's SUPPOSED to be hard.

Remaps and implants are as risk reward as everything else in Eve. Do I fit my ship for the long fight or the burst DPS? Do I fit that shiny Scram and catch the targets others wouldn't, but risk a mod worth more than my frig?

It's all risk, reward.. Training new players to better understand it, sure. Great. I'm all for that. Changing the skill system so that half the skills for a ship are one remap, the other half are the exact opposite.. again, would be great. Taking it away, and removing one more choice, one more risk, one more reward.. no.

Also, this would be a good time to offer remaps. Atm they are only available a year after last.. or sometimes at Christmas. Put Remaps in the LP store, or NEX. There, no they are no longer tied to a remap for a year. Hell offer them as rewards for some Storyline missions or something to. Make them an in game item, tradeable, now I can remap every month if I want too.

Another one, make all implants like the pirate, have secondary bonuses, and then you can make all HG Pirate +5's like the current learning.. That way it's not a choice of Max Learning OR implants that benefit you in space. Leave the current learning implants alone, replace all drops and LP store one with, say, Empire Faction implants. With something that might benefit that race/faction. Hell even tie it to the Corp so different corps would offer different learning implants with a bonus that makes sense for them. Much the same way ORE, SOE, etc do.

Make implants have a salvage chance for capsule kills. So the prices go DOWN and it's not as big a risk anymore.

There's lots of ways to improve the system, rather than just nuke it.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#684 - 2015-02-13 02:35:37 UTC
Sorry CCP Darwin but I gotta call bullcrap on what you're saying. If new players don't know about attribute remaps and implants then that's ultimately CCP's fault. You guys need to fix the New Player Experience instead of constantly punishing us older players with this type of game change.

As for remaps, if people decide on a specific remap to optimally train certain skills and in the course of that incur sub-optimal training time on other skills then that's their fault for going that route.

I've never liked the idea of doing attribute remaps to increase rate of skill training. I've had my attributes set up as a 'Jack Of All Skill Training' for a long time now because I tend to jump around training various skills in different skill groups.

My Attributes :
Intelligence = 22
Perception = 20
Willpower = 20
Memory = 20
Charisma = 17

I do however have a full set of +5 Attribute Implants to help decrease the training time. My average training time is 2,188.50 Skill Points per hour, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. I currently have 127,420,381 Skill Points. For my character age that equals to a little over 18 mill Skill Points per year. When I account for time of inactive skill training, the average is a little over 20 mill per year.

I also have expensive Hardwiring Implants that affect ship stats as well.

Hardwired Implants :
Slot #6 = Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Upgrades SU-605
Slot #7 = Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Management SM-705
Slot #8 = Poteque 'Prospector' Astrometric Rangefinding AR-806
Slot #9 = Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Operation SP-905
Slot #10 = Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005

Having those Implants in my clone doesn't make me stay docked in station and I am definitely not risk adverse. As an Explorer and Event Agent mission runner I will travel into Low and Null Sec systems whenever needed while actively engaging in my career. I even have access to various Jump-clones but I choose not to use them because I've learned how to pilot my ship and quite frankly, I like how my clone is currently fitted.

Do I engage in PvP ? Not directly but since I do travel around through various hostile systems I indirectly engage in PvP by not giving others a chance to engage me in direct combat. Even if I didn't have the +5 Attribute Implants, I'd still continue playing this game as I've always done.

So if you think removing my Attribute Implants is gonna incite me to engage in direct PvP combat with other players then you're sadly mistaken. Furthermore this game is suppose to be about player choice. Seems to me you guys at CCP are trying to remove all aspects of player choice from this game. In the past few years CCP has been steadily dictating how people should play this game. Whatever happened to you guys just providing the tools and letting us play this game as we see fit?

All I can say is that in my case and I'm sure others like me will agree, all you're doing is forcing us into a choice of un-subbing our accounts.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Memphis Baas
#685 - 2015-02-13 02:35:41 UTC
I'd play a PLEX for a bonus remap; if the rest of the player base values it as much, CCP can make a bunch of money, but it'll probably be too expensive for newbies. Maybe give new characters 5 remaps instead of 3, to offset that. Or give them 3 from character creation (as currently), and 2 more from the tutorial agents or SoE epic arc.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#686 - 2015-02-13 03:33:57 UTC
really this is very simple

remove learning implants (reimburse in isk), leave pirate sets in but strip their attribute bonuses
shift all hardwirings up 5 slots to 1-5 except mindlinks
leave slot 6 open for pirate omegas and mindlinks, remove slots 7-10
if there are any conflicts, shift the hardwirings to redeem items (prefer pirate implants in case of conflict)
remove learning implants from LP stores
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#687 - 2015-02-13 03:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
you're forgetting about the gameplay for people who acquire implants.

Allowing zero-cooldown in-station jumps would even make learning implants more popular, due to the lack of overlap with PVP. It's zero risk, sure, but learning is a passive activity, and shouldn't impinge on active gameplay like it does right now.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#688 - 2015-02-13 04:31:48 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
you're forgetting about the gameplay for people who acquire implants.

Allowing zero-cooldown in-station jumps would even make learning implants more popular, due to the lack of overlap with PVP. It's zero risk, sure, but learning is a passive activity, and shouldn't impinge on active gameplay like it does right now.

Having a chat with a few other people in game about my suggestion for a JC during the training..

Make a new class of Jump Clone, this would be clean clone, NO implant spots (aka an ideal PVP Clone for most people, at least early on). This could would not be affected by cool down, and would not count toward your normal max clones. Limit 1 (so you can't get 12 of them from the 12 rookie corp schools).

So this would be a clone you can't put learning or any other expensive implants in, thus ensuring that everyone has access to one clone they can PVP in from the beginning.
Ignores the cooldown, so if you just JC'd from your Exploration Clone, to your Mission Clone, and suddenly have a chance to go fight, you can JC into it. Thus removing the Cooldown as a reason to be unable to PvP.. (Likewise you can jump back to the clone you were in before to wait out the rest of the cooldown from any normal jumpclone maneuvers)


So there you have it. That's my suggestion. It ensures that everyone in the game has the ability to have both a training, and a PVP clone, from day one, so that they can not worry about losing implants or other such nonsense. I for one have been caught on the cool down clock several times, missing a chance to go for a fight. Not sure the whole thing should be removed, as it is a feature in the game, but sitting it aside when limited to just an empty clone is a fair trade in my book.


And as I said before, and was supported again by other posts, give us a way to BUY remaps and then wasting or being stuck wouldn't be nearly as big as an issue. It's been what? 3? 4? years since CCP last gave out a bonus remap, so everyone else who used their original 2 bonus ones is on the yearly cycle. Yet we get the excuse that it locks them into sup-optimal training. Well CCP, YOU can fix that. I mean We have Dual-Char training as an ingame item. We have Resculpt as an ingame item. Why not Remap?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#689 - 2015-02-13 05:24:40 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
And 23 million SP at the max rate. Character Bazaar sales are typically priced at 20 million SP / year converted to ISK via the subscription costs. So clearly the 16 m SP / year isn't considered the "average" or "what everyone is doing."


That's true, and I wouldn't characterize the 16 M SP/yr case as typical actual gameplay either. However, it does apply to new players who have no idea that remaps or attributes exist. :)

In fact, one issue with the current attribute system design is that doing the optimal thing (sticking to your remap, after remapping and implanting optimally) feels blah, because the accelerated skill speed (up to 2700 SP/h) is your "new normal" and any deviation just makes you feel like you're missing out, even if you're training faster than the no implants/no remaps case.

It's a bad sign when playing optimally is less fun (because you're forced not to take all the skills you want) than not knowing how to play optimally at all.



This is an argument for removing attribute discrepancies and remapping. It's not an argument for removing consumables that accelerate SP accumulation and remove loyalty points and ISK from the economy.

I support removing attribute points but am not convinced removing 'faster training' implants would be a positive change. (I'm not implaccably opposed to it either).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#690 - 2015-02-13 05:46:50 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
And as I said before, and was supported again by other posts, give us a way to BUY remaps and then wasting or being stuck wouldn't be nearly as big as an issue. It's been what? 3? 4? years since CCP last gave out a bonus remap, so everyone else who used their original 2 bonus ones is on the yearly cycle. Yet we get the excuse that it locks them into sup-optimal training. Well CCP, YOU can fix that. I mean We have Dual-Char training as an ingame item. We have Resculpt as an ingame item. Why not Remap?


CCP did have plex for remap on the test sever several years ago but people cried bloody murder that it was pay to win so CCP listened and scraped it.

-k8

My Fanclub
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#691 - 2015-02-13 05:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
normalize attributes, keep attribute implants, zero cooldown local clone jumps.

...replace T2 ship prereqs with Mastery level I (while we're on about changes that make sense).

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#692 - 2015-02-13 07:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
CCP Darwin wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Implants serve a purpose. They have benefits and drwbacks such as risk. If CCP keeps removing the risk factor of the game, it will lose the very core of what the majority of players play it for. If you're afraid to lose implants, don't fit them.


Note that learning implants provide greater reasons for risk-averse behavior than types that provide benefit for ship pilots. If you want to incentivize players risking valuable implants, the best you can do are implants that directly improve the experience of undocking in your ship. The worst you can do are implants that are just as effective even when you're logged-off.

It still seems to me that removing the concept of implants that speed skill training would increase people's willingness to spend money on implants that provide benefits to piloting a ship, and then undocking with those implants, thereby risking them.

Of course, as stated in my prior posts, I am not on the team developing this feature. I'm just offering these thoughts to contribute to the conversation.


Fair enough. I can see the reason to remove attribute implants..I just don't agree with it. To me it's something that can be used to increase skill learning depending on how much isk you want to spend. Which, or course, would benefit older/richer chars more than others..but it is just another goal to work towards imo. Perhaps what is needed more than changing what older players have already gotten used to is a more comprehensive tutorial for new players that expains the use and importance of implants and remaps, etc. It just seems that instead of making better tutorials for new players, things are taken away from the vets instead. Why should older players pay the price for what new players don't understand..because there is no tutorial to help them to understand it. When new players didn't understand probing, CCP made a better tutorial for it (so I hear..it was way after i had already learned it) . Mabe this is a better approach than changing things that imo don't need to be changed.

What I would NOT want taken away are implant sets such as slaves, etc...but I don't think that is even something that had been considered..I hope. Sure, a full set of +5's may deter some people from wanting to PvP, I can see that...but that's why i have jc's. I'f I am going to low or null, I will switch clones to avoid losing an expensive set of implants should I get popped. This is where i was making my point on risk. You make a decision...do I fly with the expensive implants...or do I jc to a clean/cheaper clone. Maybe lowering the standings requirement for jc's would help newer players achieve this ability of choice easier. Idk, it's really a preference thing imo. I think it works fine as it is...and if it's not broken...why fix it. Smile

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#693 - 2015-02-13 07:38:51 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Yes, that's why this change is being proposed, to simplify the skill training system by removing a part that adds little meaningful choice to the game.

They are meaningful choices. I have to choose: remap and plug training implants or plug hardwires and focus on training something else. Just because we have so few remaps and very little implants choices doesn't mean system is wrong. There were some good ideas in this thread how to improve training system like: more JP per station without CD, more remaps, more mixed implants etc.
CCP Darwin what will you choose:
1)plug learning implant and train the skill
2)plug +5% hardwire to skill
Most of the skills (those who are not prequisites) are trained to lvl 4. Time to train to lvl 5 is often too long for respective bonus.
CCP Darwin wrote:
1) The slots would be freed up for something else.

Why freed up? Why not creating learning implant slots (5 slots) and hardwires implants slots (10).

If we remove learning implants, attributes and remaps what will we achive? Remaps are useless to me in current state i won't cry after them (likewise attributes). If i get something in return for removing learning implants (like +5 bonus to SP training) then sure. Will all above create meaningful choices?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#694 - 2015-02-13 07:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
How about fixing all the damn bugs and unfinished content first before jumping onto another aspect of this game that works just fine.

Good gawd man, players still have to file Support Tickets after completing the Epic Arcs just to get their Faction standing increase reward.

Seriously, just stop messing round with the little things and get back to fixing the big things.

Evil



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#695 - 2015-02-13 07:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Implants serve a purpose. They have benefits and drwbacks such as risk. If CCP keeps removing the risk factor of the game, it will lose the very core of what the majority of players play it for. If you're afraid to lose implants, don't fit them.


Note that learning implants provide greater reasons for risk-averse behavior than types that provide benefit for ship pilots. If you want to incentivize players risking valuable implants, the best you can do are implants that directly improve the experience of undocking in your ship. The worst you can do are implants that are just as effective even when you're logged-off.

It still seems to me that removing the concept of implants that speed skill training would increase people's willingness to spend money on implants that provide benefits to piloting a ship, and then undocking with those implants, thereby risking them.

Of course, as stated in my prior posts, I am not on the team developing this feature. I'm just offering these thoughts to contribute to the conversation.


Fair enough. I can see the reason to remove attribute implants..I just don't agree with it. To me it's something that can be used to increase skill learning depending on how much isk you want to spend. Which, or course, would benefit older/richer chars more than others..ut it is just another goal to work towards imo. What I would NOT want taken away are implant sets such as slaves, etc...but I don't think that is even something that had been considered..I hope. Sure, a full set of +5's may deter some people from wanting to PvP, i can see that...but that's why i have jc's. I'f I am going to low or null, i will switch clones to avoid losing an expensive set of implants should I get popped. Idk, it's really a preference thing imo. I think it works fine as it is...and if it's not broken...why fix it. Smile

Here's why it's clunky. If you want to play Monday through Friday, and not go out in your +5 set, you jump clone into your PVP set. Then you have to wait 18 hours before jumping back into your +5 set. Six hours after your jump cooldown expires, you're looking to go out again, so you stay out of your +5 set, then jump back into it after you PVP. 18 hours later, you jump back out to PVP, then have to spend the night out of your +5 set again.

So even though learning and a +5 set is a passive activity, and something you do when you aren't logged in, the timing of the jump cooldown (18 h minimum) means it will be forever out of sync with a consistent play schedule. You end up spending the night out of your +5 set every other day.

I don't think that can be considered meaningful. It is more like clunky and stilted, don't you think?

Adjusting the jump clone timer to anything other than zero is bad because it allows too much mobility for the conventional purpose of jump cloning to a different location. Even for the purpose of local jump cloning (to swap in and out of +5 sets), a shorter cooldown (non-zero) will still be out of sync with your sleep or work schedule, and you'll have to start setting alarm clocks to make best use of +5 sets while not logged in (which is a passive activity, remember).

This is why I say the local jump cooldown should be zero. It's not useful for travel purposes, and also allows a player to switch implant sets like they switch ships. If you dock and it's in station, you should get to use it / change into and out of it.

Removing implants also removes gameplay for players who acquire them. The learning attribute issue is one of making gameplay smoother, not removing it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ace Northmen
Sanctuary Reapers Holdings
#696 - 2015-02-13 07:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Northmen
Promiscuous Female wrote:
really this is very simple

remove learning implants (reimburse in isk), leave pirate sets in but strip their attribute bonuses
shift all hardwirings up 5 slots to 1-5 except mindlinks
leave slot 6 open for pirate omegas and mindlinks, remove slots 7-10
if there are any conflicts, shift the hardwirings to redeem items (prefer pirate implants in case of conflict)
remove learning implants from LP stores



and what would that achieve ?
everyone having the same training rate ? what about who wants to have an edge in trainning rate by risking more ?
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#697 - 2015-02-13 07:57:22 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Implants serve a purpose. They have benefits and drwbacks such as risk. If CCP keeps removing the risk factor of the game, it will lose the very core of what the majority of players play it for. If you're afraid to lose implants, don't fit them.


Note that learning implants provide greater reasons for risk-averse behavior than types that provide benefit for ship pilots. If you want to incentivize players risking valuable implants, the best you can do are implants that directly improve the experience of undocking in your ship. The worst you can do are implants that are just as effective even when you're logged-off.

It still seems to me that removing the concept of implants that speed skill training would increase people's willingness to spend money on implants that provide benefits to piloting a ship, and then undocking with those implants, thereby risking them.

Of course, as stated in my prior posts, I am not on the team developing this feature. I'm just offering these thoughts to contribute to the conversation.


Fair enough. I can see the reason to remove attribute implants..I just don't agree with it. To me it's something that can be used to increase skill learning depending on how much isk you want to spend. Which, or course, would benefit older/richer chars more than others..ut it is just another goal to work towards imo. What I would NOT want taken away are implant sets such as slaves, etc...but I don't think that is even something that had been considered..I hope. Sure, a full set of +5's may deter some people from wanting to PvP, i can see that...but that's why i have jc's. I'f I am going to low or null, i will switch clones to avoid losing an expensive set of implants should I get popped. Idk, it's really a preference thing imo. I think it works fine as it is...and if it's not broken...why fix it. Smile

Here's why it's clunky. If you want to play Monday through Friday, and not go out in your +5 set, you jump clone into your PVP set. Then you have to wait 18 hours before jumping back into your +5 set. Six hours after your jump cooldown expires, you're looking to go out again, so you stay out of your +5 set, then jump back into it after you PVP. 18 hours later, you jump back out to PVP, then have to spend the night out of your +5 set again.

So even though learning and a +5 set is a passive activity, and something you do when you aren't logged in, the timing of the jump cooldown (18 h minimum) means it will be forever out of sync with a consistent play schedule. You end up spending the night out of your +5 set every other day.

I don't think that can be considered meaningful. It is more like clunky and stilted, don't you think?

Adjusting the jump clone timer to anything other than zero is bad because it allows too much mobility for the conventional purpose of jump cloning to a different location. Even for the purpose of local jump cloning (to swap in and out of +5 sets), a shorter cooldown (non-zero) will still be out of sync with your sleep or work schedule, and you'll have to start setting alarm clocks to make best use of +5 sets while not logged in (which is a passive activity, remember).

This is why I say the local jump cooldown should be zero. It's not useful for travel purposes, and also allows a player to switch implant sets like they switch ships. If you dock and it's in station, you should get to use it / change into and out of it.


These are all things that have to be considered by the player. It's all choice. Will you risk the expensive implants to avoid the 18hr cooldown..or will you jc to a cheap clone to avoid the loss in isk ut have to wait. This is where YOU, the player, have to weigh the risk vs reward. Risk: loss of expensive implants...reward: avoid the cooldown...

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#698 - 2015-02-13 07:58:50 UTC
I'm disappointed in you for applying a quaint cliche to such an important issue that can be solved.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#699 - 2015-02-13 08:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
I have said before in the past if we are going to change anything, then just remove atts and remaps all together and give everyone a base 2700 speed. I do however like the current situation, but maybe that's based on my history with the game.

I do agree that at present it's poor game design for new players that means no matter how well you optimise your atts, you cannot optimise your skill training. As an old player this affects me far less. I have been set at full perc/will optimization for years and have almost completed all I wish for in those skill sets.

But that doesn't mean I agree however, when someone tells me that their +5 implants stopped them PvPing. That's just people looking for an excuse and that would continue even if such a change is made.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#700 - 2015-02-13 08:01:35 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

If implants for slots 1-5 provided the same quality of benefit as spending that learning implant money on a somewhat more expensive ship would, why wouldn't implants be the smarter choice? After all, implants often survive multiple ship deaths, even in null.


The problem with Hardwirings is that they are just as big an obstruction to going out and pvping that you believe Learning Implants are, because Hardwirings are module specific, so the vast majority of the time, useless to your current need (unless you literally only ever fly one ship).

Discounting my Supercap pilot who is stuck in his ship, so Hardwirings are an obvious choice for him, I have only two clones with Hardwirings in. One has a Medium Hybrid Turrent Implant (for when I fly Tengus), and another has a CPU Implant (for when I fly the alliance Apocalypse fit). Both of those Hardwirings are literally only useful when I undock the particular ship i need the Implant for. If I undock any other ship, those Hardwirings are just dead weight, extra money I am carrying in the pod, that does nothing to enhance pvp... you know, exactly like you claim Learning Implants are. So if a fleet ping goes out for a Harpy fleet, while I am in my Apocalyse clone, I have to make the choice of whether I go on the fleet and risk the Hardwiring for no benefit, or not go. Exactly like the choice the Learning Implant wearer has to make. If a deadweight Learning Implant is supposedly giving me incentive not to pvp because of the extra cost, then these deadweight Hardwirings are too.

The problem is Jump Clone timers - literally, every issue you have with Learning Implants goes away if you listen to Rains continual suggestion to do away with Jump Clone timers when switching to another clone within the same station.