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T3 modules - something different
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-02-06 14:20:02 UTC
So how about T3 modules? not for the sake of more blingy ships, T3 is supposed to be mroe versatile, so how about versatility as its function.

You cant make modules versatile, but you can make ships, so how about T3 are powerful modules designed to make ships more versatile.

Just as an example of how the stats would work, lets look at ENAMs, a T3 ENAM would have roughly 2x the resists (maybe a little less) of a T2 ENAM, but 2.5x the fitting costs, and would impose a 90% stacking penalty on all other armor resist mods on the ship, since these arent meant to just bling out a ship with uber stats, it instead is meant to free up a slot to either take advantage of excess fitting space, or allow space for a fitting module to boost mods in other parts of the ship up a size (like a T2 instead of a meta 4, or T2 tachyons instead of regular T2 heavy beams)

so between the increased fitting costs and severe stacking penalties, it would be outperformed by equipping 2 faction or deadpsace mods of the same type, but its advantage would be having an extra slot.

(yes i WAS going to make a post in an old thread, but looking at a lot of the locked ones, posting an idea to bump an old one would just have people responding/trolling on the OP until it was locked anyways, So figured I would just make a new post and if people liked the idea theyd discuss it rather than report for lock)
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2015-02-06 17:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
So how about T3 modules? not for the sake of more blingy ships, T3 is supposed to be mroe versatile, so how about versatility as its function.

You cant make modules versatile, but you can make ships, so how about T3 are powerful modules designed to make ships more versatile.

Just as an example of how the stats would work, lets look at ENAMs, a T3 ENAM would have roughly 2x the resists (maybe a little less) of a T2 ENAM, but 2.5x the fitting costs, and would impose a 90% stacking penalty on all other armor resist mods on the ship, since these arent meant to just bling out a ship with uber stats, it instead is meant to free up a slot to either take advantage of excess fitting space, or allow space for a fitting module to boost mods in other parts of the ship up a size (like a T2 instead of a meta 4, or T2 tachyons instead of regular T2 heavy beams)

so between the increased fitting costs and severe stacking penalties, it would be outperformed by equipping 2 faction or deadpsace mods of the same type, but its advantage would be having an extra slot.

(yes i WAS going to make a post in an old thread, but looking at a lot of the locked ones, posting an idea to bump an old one would just have people responding/trolling on the OP until it was locked anyways, So figured I would just make a new post and if people liked the idea theyd discuss it rather than report for lock)


I would abuse the **** out of that system. Oh man. Being able to double up specific modules and freeing slots all at once.

Turbocharge EVERYTHING!

Two Gyros? Nope! T3 Gyro and nanofiber! Gotta go fast! Same DPS, but FASTER!

Enam and 1 of each specific hardener on my carrier! Nope! Four doubled up specific resists, then DCU and layered platings! TANK EVERYTHING FOREVER!

Two tracking computers fitted with optimal? NOPE! Two T3 tracking computers, one with range, one with tracking! Hit flies at 100KM! WRRAAAARW!

Thanks for the laugh, I found this idea quite fun to think about. But I don't think there's any way to effectively balance such modules for in game use.

-1, sadly.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-02-06 18:50:45 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
So how about T3 modules? not for the sake of more blingy ships, T3 is supposed to be mroe versatile, so how about versatility as its function.

You cant make modules versatile, but you can make ships, so how about T3 are powerful modules designed to make ships more versatile.

Just as an example of how the stats would work, lets look at ENAMs, a T3 ENAM would have roughly 2x the resists (maybe a little less) of a T2 ENAM, but 2.5x the fitting costs, and would impose a 90% stacking penalty on all other armor resist mods on the ship, since these arent meant to just bling out a ship with uber stats, it instead is meant to free up a slot to either take advantage of excess fitting space, or allow space for a fitting module to boost mods in other parts of the ship up a size (like a T2 instead of a meta 4, or T2 tachyons instead of regular T2 heavy beams)

so between the increased fitting costs and severe stacking penalties, it would be outperformed by equipping 2 faction or deadpsace mods of the same type, but its advantage would be having an extra slot.

(yes i WAS going to make a post in an old thread, but looking at a lot of the locked ones, posting an idea to bump an old one would just have people responding/trolling on the OP until it was locked anyways, So figured I would just make a new post and if people liked the idea theyd discuss it rather than report for lock)


I would abuse the **** out of that system. Oh man. Being able to double up specific modules and freeing slots all at once.

Turbocharge EVERYTHING!

Two Gyros? Nope! T3 Gyro and nanofiber! Gotta go fast! Same DPS, but FASTER!

Enam and 1 of each specific hardener on my carrier! Nope! Four doubled up specific resists, then DCU and layered platings! TANK EVERYTHING FOREVER!

Two tracking computers fitted with optimal? NOPE! Two T3 tracking computers, one with range, one with tracking! Hit flies at 100KM! WRRAAAARW!

Thanks for the laugh, I found this idea quite fun to think about. But I don't think there's any way to effectively balance such modules for in game use.

-1, sadly.

like i said, 90% stacking penalties, so no, youd have 1 ENAM with omni resists, likely no T3 mods for specific resist, or if they do the only one with full effect is the one giving the most bonus, and none of the specifics if an omni is fitted, and again, its 250% fitting costs for just barely 200% power, most fits I can think of wouldnt be able to "turbo charge everything" theyd simply be able to upgrade one or two of their downsized mods by using the empty slot for a fitting mod

remember, im not saying "just double the power" because your using even more fitting space for the 1 with double power than if you just equipped 2, and you can only equip 1 of the type, so you could only fit the nanofiber with that gyro if beforehand you had enough space to fit the nano anyways (plus a little extra fitting space because of increased need on the T3)

overall, with resist mods this might lead to an escalation on caps and up, but MOST battleship fits and below are tight enough that emptied slot would 90%+ of the time be devoted to a fitting mod so you can up the meta-level of another mod on the ship

of course if im horribly wrong and there is a totally OP fit this woudl allow, Id love to see it posted up here with some theorycrafting, would do it myself but im at work for the next 8 hours so i cant do **** but sneak off to the forums in the 5 minutes the boss voids his bowels of taco bell
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#4 - 2015-02-06 19:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

like i said, 90% stacking penalties, so no, youd have 1 ENAM with omni resists, likely no T3 mods for specific resist, or if they do the only one with full effect is the one giving the most bonus, and none of the specifics if an omni is fitted, and again, its 250% fitting costs for just barely 200% power, most fits I can think of wouldnt be able to "turbo charge everything" theyd simply be able to upgrade one or two of their downsized mods by using the empty slot for a fitting mod

remember, im not saying "just double the power" because your using even more fitting space for the 1 with double power than if you just equipped 2, and you can only equip 1 of the type, so you could only fit the nanofiber with that gyro if beforehand you had enough space to fit the nano anyways (plus a little extra fitting space because of increased need on the T3)

overall, with resist mods this might lead to an escalation on caps and up, but MOST battleship fits and below are tight enough that emptied slot would 90%+ of the time be devoted to a fitting mod so you can up the meta-level of another mod on the ship

of course if im horribly wrong and there is a totally OP fit this woudl allow, Id love to see it posted up here with some theorycrafting, would do it myself but im at work for the next 8 hours so i cant do **** but sneak off to the forums in the 5 minutes the boss voids his bowels of taco bell


At only 2.5x the fitting needs, it could become nearly standard practice to take any place where you have double of a lowslot mod like a hardener, gyro, TE, or enam, and replace with with a single t3 version of that mod and then another mod where it takes up little to no fitting, like the passive armor platings (0 CPU, 1 PG), or Nanofibers(0 CPU, 0 PG).

For low CPU mods like sensor boosters or TP's, a t3 version of the mod would be preferable to t2 versions of other mods, even with double the normal fitting of the t2 version. Many ships wold fit a t3 sensor booster over other more conventional mods if it took only 25 CPU, 3 PG, and could be scripted to 100+ % scan resolution or targeting range.

And of course capitals with their nearly infinite fitting capabilities would just t3 everything. One of each type of t3 resist, then a DCU since it does not incur stacking penalties, then layered plating which would not be effected by the resist mods stacking penalties since it only effects raw armor HP. The end result on a 7 lowslot archon would be similar to having 8 t2 specific hardeners, a DCU, then an additional 15% raw armor on top of that from two Layered Plating II's (which is then further multiplied by the trimarks). A 11 lot tank in just the lows, fit into 7 slots.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-02-06 19:45:16 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

like i said, 90% stacking penalties, so no, youd have 1 ENAM with omni resists, likely no T3 mods for specific resist, or if they do the only one with full effect is the one giving the most bonus, and none of the specifics if an omni is fitted, and again, its 250% fitting costs for just barely 200% power, most fits I can think of wouldnt be able to "turbo charge everything" theyd simply be able to upgrade one or two of their downsized mods by using the empty slot for a fitting mod

remember, im not saying "just double the power" because your using even more fitting space for the 1 with double power than if you just equipped 2, and you can only equip 1 of the type, so you could only fit the nanofiber with that gyro if beforehand you had enough space to fit the nano anyways (plus a little extra fitting space because of increased need on the T3)

overall, with resist mods this might lead to an escalation on caps and up, but MOST battleship fits and below are tight enough that emptied slot would 90%+ of the time be devoted to a fitting mod so you can up the meta-level of another mod on the ship

of course if im horribly wrong and there is a totally OP fit this woudl allow, Id love to see it posted up here with some theorycrafting, would do it myself but im at work for the next 8 hours so i cant do **** but sneak off to the forums in the 5 minutes the boss voids his bowels of taco bell


At only 2.5x the fitting needs, it could become nearly standard practice to take any place where you have double of a lowslot mod like a hardener, gyro, TE, or enam, and replace with with a single t3 version of that mod and then another mod where it takes up little to no fitting, like the passive armor platings (0 CPU, 1 PG), or Nanofibers(0 CPU, 0 PG).

For low CPU mods like sensor boosters or TP's, a t3 version of the mod would be preferable to t2 versions of other mods, even with double the normal fitting of the t2 version. Many ships wold fit a t3 sensor booster over other more conventional mods if it took only 25 CPU, 3 PG, and could be scripted to 100+ % scan resolution or targeting range.

And of course capitals with their nearly infinite fitting capabilities would just t3 everything. One of each type of t3 resist, then a DCU since it does not incur stacking penalties, then layered plating which would not be effected by the resist mods stacking penalties since it only effects raw armor HP. The end result on a 7 lowslot archon would be similar to having 8 t2 specific hardeners, a DCU, then an additional 15% raw armor on top of that from two Layered Plating II's (which is then further multiplied by the trimarks). A 11 lot tank in just the lows, fit into 7 slots.

like I said, restrictions would have to eb put in place, and maybe 2.5x fitting isnt high enough compensation for freeing up a slot.

but like I said, as for specific ahrdeners, it could be that only the one effecting your lowest resist gets used at full, the rest suffer the 90% penalty if used, remeber, the stipulation at the beginning was that it puts penalties on all similar mods, so anything effectng armor resists, which Is why I was talking about the omni resist mods

either way, ill try and see if i can get EFT up adn running when I get home and play with some numbers to see if I can find a balance, if I cant the idea can rot, either way I cant do much theorycrafting for the next 6-7 hours because work doesnt let me have fun
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#6 - 2015-02-06 21:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
lol i just the whole idea of t3 modules makes me laugh

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-02-07 00:39:04 UTC
I thought this said something different? this is basically the same as every other T3 module post

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
#8 - 2015-02-07 06:13:55 UTC
I can't oppose progress. But I wouldn't look forward to the "keeping up with the Joneses" factor that would come with the proliferation of T3 modules. I sometimes long for those simpler times when T2 was still exotic and most everything was just six minerals and mission drops.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2015-02-07 07:15:41 UTC
Colette Kassia wrote:
I can't oppose progress. But I wouldn't look forward to the "keeping up with the Joneses" factor that would come with the proliferation of T3 modules. I sometimes long for those simpler times when T2 was still exotic and most everything was just six minerals and mission drops.


Heh. I remember the days when the severity of a war dec was measured in how many T2 ships the opponent could field. A dozen meant very serious trouble and even as many as 5 was intimidating.

As for T3 modules.... I don't think we're there yet. I won't say never, but I think straight power creep just isn't the way to go. Introducing something interesting like T3 modules that replace those that take scripts and give up to 75% of the scripted bonus might be a way to go (oh, and obviously they couldn't be scripted anymore). That forces an actual choice. For instance, you could either fit a T2 tracking computer and have the ability to focus on range or tracking or fit a T3, specializing in neither but getting some benefit across the board. This fits with the general idea that T3 should be a jack of all trades/master of none concept without being strictly superior.

But like I said. Not there yet.