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Latest CSM notes : Rumours of attribute points/implants being removed.

First post First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#501 - 2015-02-04 12:13:37 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Leannor wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The same players who will not participate in pvp because they will not risk losing their learning implants will be the same players who will not pvp and risk losing their [insert any item you can enter into combat with, ship, fittings, pod, etc].

Don't most folk use a less expensive clone to pvp anyway?



Fixed it for you ... Big smile


Thank you Smile

Well i disagree a bit.

When you loose a hardwiring , ship , mods - you loose only ISK, something that is easily replaced.
When you loose a learning implant , you loose time, time that cannot be replaced.

You could say that you can replace them with new implants - yes , but when you fly very small ships, or live in null you are dying constantly in your pod. Sometimes your pod can live 5 days , sometimes 5 minutes.

I have the same bad habit for Tech 3 cruisers.
Loosing ISK is not the problem , but losing 5 days ...
I prefer to loose a dread than tech 3 cruiser, even if it is 10 times more expensive.
So far so good , 5 dreads dead , 0 tech 3 cruisers lost Roll




Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#502 - 2015-02-04 14:26:28 UTC
The only thing I hate about implants is losing a pod in 0.0 and having to fly back to Jita for a new set....especially the CA-1 and CA-2 implants.
Wobblypops
Doomheim
#503 - 2015-02-04 14:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wobblypops
Attribute implants are just as stupid as learning skills and likewise should be removed. Everyone should be able to train at the same speed and have the freedom to do so regardless.

Right now my main is stuck in highsec instead of me having some pew pew fun in lowsec just because of my attribute implants. I just came back to the game after being away for 3 years I need to train skills but I don't want to keep coughing up millions on attribute implants. Right now I'm forced to carebare or sit docked at my station spinning my ship. This was part of the reason why I left in the first place!

Come on CCP don't talk about it do it! I have complete faith in you it's for the good of the game.
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#504 - 2015-02-04 14:33:17 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:
The only thing I hate about implants is losing a pod in 0.0 and having to fly back to Jita for a new set....especially the CA-1 and CA-2 implants.


for me, that also applies to ships ... (unless I settle for a sh*t local ship) ... so, the same.

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#505 - 2015-02-04 15:34:02 UTC
My first reaction to this is an admittedly negative one, although that may simply be due to not having taken the time yet to actually read the CSM minutes yet. (I must find time for that soon.)

I think I'd be okay with this if it ties into statements that were made when clones were changed. It was indicated that the way clones were handled was eventually going to be completely changed, with more interesting and challenging choices introduced.

Since our clones and our implants are irrevocably linked, to my mind that also meant that implant mechanics were going to undergo a major rethink as well.

If they are removed and new mechanics do not replace them in a positive manner, I will not be very happy about it. However if clones, implants, and death itself are given a big (and well conceived) face lift... well... I"m not going to cling to old mechanics simply because change is scary.

So for my part I will wait for the other shoe to drop.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Idoru Yoshikawa
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#506 - 2015-02-04 15:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Idoru Yoshikawa
If that implies the training time for all the skills is reduced significantly and you can still plug hardwired implants I could be ok about it. Otherwise, reset CSM. Tia.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#507 - 2015-02-04 17:06:47 UTC
Wobblypops wrote:
Attribute implants are just as stupid as learning skills and likewise should be removed. Everyone should be able to train at the same speed and have the freedom to do so regardless.

Right now my main is stuck in highsec instead of me having some pew pew fun in lowsec just because of my attribute implants. I just came back to the game after being away for 3 years I need to train skills but I don't want to keep coughing up millions on attribute implants. Right now I'm forced to carebare or sit docked at my station spinning my ship. This was part of the reason why I left in the first place!

Come on CCP don't talk about it do it! I have complete faith in you it's for the good of the game.



JUMP CLONES


If you cant go 20 hours without training implants then stay docked and become a station trader, also high sec is just as deadly for clones as low sec is so you really shouldn't be undocking ever.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#508 - 2015-02-04 22:13:30 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
You could say that you can replace them with new implants - yes , but when you fly very small ships, or live in null you are dying constantly in your pod. Sometimes your pod can live 5 days , sometimes 5 minutes.

If your goal is to fly small ships you don't need expensive implants because all necessary skills are low training time. As for live in null, without them you will train as fast as now. What's the point of removing them? There's a polish idiom for that behaviour - gardner dog- if i can't have it nobody can. Also stop shooting at your own knees. You don't want to use learing implants, you won't use hirdwires beacuse sometimes you can live for 5 minutes.

Why you guys are focused on SP so much? SP have nothing to do with pvp. It's relic from xp system (i have more xp gained on my char i'm better at something - wrong). My main have around 35 mil SP now. I have zero experience in pvp, if i jump in combat i have no idea what to do. Player with 5 mil SP would propably decorate gate with my guts.
Pod is just a tool not a purpose.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

45thtiger 0109
Pandemic Legion
#509 - 2015-02-04 23:00:07 UTC
Whatever happens to implants and hardwire so be it.

I also live in nullsec and at times you need to use no implants in your head or when you are in a fleet or roaming null sec to avoid losing implants that you have used your hard earning isk to get them.

I see why CCP wants to get rid of them and I do accept what CCP is trying to achieve here.

We all should accept what CCP is trying to do to make this game more friendly for all.

implants and hardwire is a big isk sink for allot of players so long CCP does reimburse the players for implants and hardwires by giving us all SP or something else.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**

Torbrun Shazih
Reavers Cartel
#510 - 2015-02-04 23:20:19 UTC
The better trained I am, the better I am able to accomplish my goals - the SP I accrue improves my ability to refine materials, research blueprints, manufacture and invent ships and modules etc. My science skill levels unlock access to research agents which expands the range of datacores available to me and the rate at which I can earn research points to buy them for trade and invention of the T2 gear that PVPers use and lose in combat. From my perspective SP is not a worthless relic, but an essential part of the game. At the moment, there is no other mechanic within the game that will let me do all this,so the faster I can learn and accrue SP the better.
Tibo Paralian
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#511 - 2015-02-04 23:25:34 UTC
I do enjoy the safety of highsec and +5s while leveling my raven.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#512 - 2015-02-05 07:17:30 UTC
Torbrun Shazih wrote:
The better trained I am, the better I am able to accomplish my goals - the SP I accrue improves my ability to refine materials, research blueprints, manufacture and invent ships and modules etc. My science skill levels unlock access to research agents which expands the range of datacores available to me and the rate at which I can earn research points to buy them for trade and invention of the T2 gear that PVPers use and lose in combat. From my perspective SP is not a worthless relic, but an essential part of the game. At the moment, there is no other mechanic within the game that will let me do all this,so the faster I can learn and accrue SP the better.

Sure, from manufacturing perspective SP are the most important thing, but you not using your pod the way pvpers do. You have a skill lvl treshold, you can't manufacture without certain skill level. Pvpers can pvp with lower skills and can get better in time. Worthless relic is thinking: i have more SP i'll be better at pvp. I'll buy titan char, fly a titan and win EvE. There is a lot talking about having options in EvE now, for me removing implants is decreasing them.

Whole discussion starting to be like: "i won't be using implants because i may lose it in fight, it's unfair because that way i'm learning slower than hisec carebear".

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#513 - 2015-02-05 09:07:27 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Torbrun Shazih wrote:
The better trained I am, the better I am able to accomplish my goals - the SP I accrue improves my ability to refine materials, research blueprints, manufacture and invent ships and modules etc. My science skill levels unlock access to research agents which expands the range of datacores available to me and the rate at which I can earn research points to buy them for trade and invention of the T2 gear that PVPers use and lose in combat. From my perspective SP is not a worthless relic, but an essential part of the game. At the moment, there is no other mechanic within the game that will let me do all this,so the faster I can learn and accrue SP the better.

Sure, from manufacturing perspective SP are the most important thing, but you not using your pod the way pvpers do. You have a skill lvl treshold, you can't manufacture without certain skill level. Pvpers can pvp with lower skills and can get better in time. Worthless relic is thinking: i have more SP i'll be better at pvp. I'll buy titan char, fly a titan and win EvE. There is a lot talking about having options in EvE now, for me removing implants is decreasing them.

Whole discussion starting to be like: "i won't be using implants because i may lose it in fight, it's unfair because that way i'm learning slower than hisec carebear".


ARe you irish? ;-)

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#514 - 2015-02-05 16:15:30 UTC
Wobblypops wrote:
Attribute implants are just as stupid as learning skills and likewise should be removed. Everyone should be able to train at the same speed and have the freedom to do so regardless.

Right now my main is stuck in highsec instead of me having some pew pew fun in lowsec just because of my attribute implants. I just came back to the game after being away for 3 years I need to train skills but I don't want to keep coughing up millions on attribute implants. Right now I'm forced to carebare or sit docked at my station spinning my ship. This was part of the reason why I left in the first place!

Come on CCP don't talk about it do it! I have complete faith in you it's for the good of the game.


"i bought implants who cost too much, so i need to stay docked and not play the game. Remove implants from the game".


Use Evemon and look at the difference in training time implant does. A full set of +5 implant is +-20% faster than no implant. +4 aren't much slower than +5 and cost less (you can almost buy a full set of +4 for the price of a single +5). I'm still using +3 on all my 3 accounts (2 of them having 92 and 85m SP).

YOU made the choise of playing ships spinning in a station because YOU choose to spend a shitload of isk in your implants for learning skills faster. Yes, you will save quite some time using +5 over +4 or +3 in 4-500 days, but right now, you are not playing the game. Is it worth training skills faster if you aren't playing the game? I do not think so. You said you left the game because you had to stay docked. Yet, you are back and still doing the same thing?

What you are asking is the removal of implants because you've made the wrong choise. You can do L4 using a T1 BS with T1 guns. Yet, some players buy faction ships, faction guns, faction or deadspace mods because the extra DPS/tank make missionning faster/easier. A paladin does almost 400 more DPS than an abaddon. Almost 30% more DPS, but cost 5 time higher. 4 factions heat sink only add around 70DPS on a faction tachy nightmare VS T2 one, but cost nearly 115x more! You choose to spend more on your implants for faster learning like missionners spend more isk on faction mods for completing missions faster.

And anyway, if you go look at players doing PVP in LS, you will see they rarely lose their pod. It's all about choise and learning the game mechanics (you know...there is something called...jumpclone, spamming warp when you are in structure...).

EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#515 - 2015-02-05 16:56:57 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

Wouldn't you just spend your money on hardwirings instead, and maybe get an even larger edge in combat?

Or, is your concern that learning implants would be viewed by the average player as inherently more valuable than non-learning-implants, so their willingness to spend on their pod decreases?

I never use a clone without learning implants because it's the only way I can buy extra SP. Hardwirings, if they're useful I'll use them but they never provide anything close to as valuble as extra SP and it's frequently a pain to be in the right ones.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#516 - 2015-02-05 21:11:00 UTC
Leannor wrote:
ARe you irish? ;-)

Nope, but i wouldn't mind huging a bottle of whiskey Blink

Speaking of having options, is 1 remap per month would be too much?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#517 - 2015-02-06 03:32:40 UTC
I know that I am not the average player and am aware that my OCD for max SP / hour is not logical or functional. However maxing out my SP / hour is one of my main things in this game. Call it stupid if you want but it's how I play. I don't PvP so my input my not apply but even in doing risky PvE stuff if it requires me jumping out of my learning implants for 20+ hours the answer is no way.

I'm sure most players are not like me but with ships you can switch out of your faction fit mission runner and into a cheap PvP ship and go loose it with no consequences other than the lost ship that you planned on loosing anyway. With implants if you jump clone out of them you loose skill points regardless of what happens in the PvP.

To me removing attribute implants makes sense if you want to encourage PvP. Maybe keep the hardwirings as you don't loose anything that you can't get back when you loose them.

You can make arguments that it is dumbing down the game which it likely is, you can make arguments that it is removing some of the risk versus reward which it is but I think there is a line here between permanent loss and regainable loss. When CCP removed the potential skill point loss and clone upgrade system PvP increased no one can argue against that. I know of several people myself included that won't fly T3 crusiers due to the potential skill point loss and I noticed that the T3 dessies don't have it. I think CCP realized it was a mistake and not good for the game.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#518 - 2015-02-06 07:23:10 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

To me removing attribute implants makes sense if you want to encourage PvP. Maybe keep the hardwirings as you don't loose anything that you can't get back when you loose them.

Sure sure, let me check the cost of hardwire implants. Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Small Projectile Turret SP-605 +5% buff to dmg, cheapest at 131 mil 06.02.2015.
For example: Memory Augmentation - Improved +5 attribute, 119 mil 06.02.2015
Sure, they will use hardwires...
ergherhdfgh wrote:
When CCP removed the potential skill point loss and clone upgrade system PvP increased no one can argue against that

Is it? Increased? Last time i saw graphic about pvping (fanfest i think) 10% of players were pvping. How much does it change since then?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#519 - 2015-02-06 07:56:33 UTC
We should also remove expensive ships and mods from the game as people are less likely to undock and PVP in them.

Stupid idea, imo.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project

Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#520 - 2015-02-06 09:03:46 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
We should also remove expensive ships and mods from the game as people are less likely to undock and PVP in them.

Stupid idea, imo.


well said ...

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"