EVE General Discussion

They don't.

The people who go "well, I can't compete till I have x SP, which I "need" my implants for so I'm not going to do PVP because it's expensive" will after the removal of learning implants go "well, I can't compete till I use slaves/crystals/whatever just like everyone else which is expensive". Because they don't use a proper reasoning, they're just using excuses.



Then you trained them badly. The gain from doing specific remaps compared to an allround perc/int map is actually quite small. Also, +2 are quite cheap and most importantly; SP isn't that important.





People who previously were ok with pvping in learning implants (which in and of themselves do not affect an actual fight, but they want them anyway to "advance faster") will now switch to implants that DO affect a fight (slaves, crystals, etc). So your newbie went from a situation where he might have had slightly less SP gain that his target (which doesn't necessarily mean anything, the other guy might train for stuff that doesn't affect his current ship) to a situation where the ships stats are completely not in his favour.

This is BAD for said newbie and it effectively results in P2W: To be on par he'll have to buy himself Slaves/crystals as well which, given him being a newbie, means selling plex.

If you are under the illusion that people go "I need X SP to compete" you are wrong. People often don't use learning implants in order to better compete with other people. They use learning implants to unlock things quicker. A new player usually has some goal. That could be get into a drake, get T2 missiles, get better fitting skills, etc. Their objective is to better themselves, unlock more paths, and more content. Their goal isn't to "keep up with the Jones" but to make their play time more fun.

Don't even insinuate that I trained people badly when you have no idea what I did to train people. I was very much of the opinion that if day 1 new player trained ~8 hours so they could use a frigate, MWD, and a warp disruptor then they were useful in the small gang Syndicate PvP fleets I used to FC/be a part of. I loved having more tackle in my fleets. The group I was with even provided the fit frigates. We taught them everything from how to survive in nullsec, make isk in nullsec, gave them all the info they needed to get into useful ships, have to use attributes and remaps to their advantage, how to use EACS to get jump clones, etc.. We even told people to avoid letting their learning implants get in the way of their PvP. We understood that those implants caused risk adversity, and then the player wouldn't want to PvP, realize they aren't having fun shooting rats in highsec while they trained faster, and would eventually quit Eve out of boredom. That isn't good for anyone. Those that gave up the implants had far more fun and were far more likely to stick around. Imagine how many other players would be in Eve creating content if the hundreds of others had stayed.

Also, cut the slippery slope BS. Just because learning implants wouldn't be there does not mean everyone is going to switch to slaves, snakes and crystals. If that were going to happen it already would have because high grades give you +4 attributes. Which to most people is good enough as the 90SP/hour you get less is a fair trade for the advantages of those implants.

I resemble that remark....

However, I'm currently sitting in station in a set of +5s while I add a few high-level skills (dreads, cap guns mostly).
I can see why CCP would do this, and I'm fine with it. Not having an option would mean I'd be in null, enjoying myself, instead of sitting in station for a few weeks to get the skills done a week or more earlier.

training everything to 5 then? you save 15 days on a dread 1-5 and a weapon 1-5 with +5's and only 2 days with + 5's if you only train them to lv4.


Want an option go play in low sec. As your implants are as safe there as in High sec while in space. And you are equally safe docked in any space

If the options were the same as with learning implants today, what could we plug in instead of the learning skills? I dont recall being able to use slave skills to improve the armor of my ship, at the cost of any learning skills. The learning implants are nothing like the learning skills and im sick of everybody saying theyre identical.

I cant grasp why you cant have learnng implants and fly around, when i had +5s i undocked and got myself killed many a time. Hell, when you go out and pvp its really hard to lose a pod unless you hit either a bubble or a dedicated pod hunter. Even when you get caught out, a full set of 5s cost what? 600 mil? Easily replaced when your at the stage of using those implants.

You cant fix what isnt broken, i see nothing wrong with the current setup beyond "I hate choices"

If you know what you are doing a set will cost you 240million.

Who cares? I am sure there are people that pay more every month - does that mean they have more value than you?

It never ceases to amaze me that people somehow think they're special because they know how to spend money

A couple of years. IIRC, depending on how well your spec and your training queue line up.

Yep, I'd be all for the removing the remap / SP implants. The resulting SP/hr is meaningless to me, having the option right now, I choose to train faster.




Unfortunately, he isn't mapped for it, and doesn't have a remap for a few months, making the +5s more important. I'm actually training 3 dreads and associated guns to at least 4.

For those with larger budgets, sometimes there's an upper limit to the ISK you stuff into a clone without learning implants.
For newer people, they have to balance getting that extra 1% in combat, or a slightly faster training time. That balance can make or break a fight.