EVE General Discussion

What is an "all round" remap?

And what about logi, scanning, cloaking, ect. Do they all use perc/int? What is the big thing now Bombers, does training up all the skills needed revolve around perc/int. (I really don't know) Your alliance or corp may need players to quickly fill different slots for different roles for all the new changes that have come out, do you remap for those and then are stuck for a whole year.

Also, if perc/int are the all around best defaults why would you would cripple yourself changing to something else.

Again, removing attributes would have no effect on the core meta of EVE which is killing ships.

No it is not the same thing since training these ships still use the same attributes. God just more of the same non-effort arguments.

Actually it is broken. Remapping and planning year long skill plans around them wasn't an intended game mechanic. It used to be you created your character and that was it, no attribute changes allowed. So if you wanted an industrial character you picked the attributes and if you wanted to be combat focused, too bad.

That was changed to make it so character creation wasn't a lock in, but now we have a meta of re-maps and optimizing skill training around it. This pretty much requires 3rd party tools, is a PITA for newer players who have no idea what they want to focus on and is pretty unfun when you're Per/Wil focused and need to wait 10 months to train that Int/Mem skill you'd really like to have sooner rather than later.

So yeah, attributes probably needs to go away. It's an old mechanic that doesn't add much to the current game.

Ok lets look at what the minutes actually contain as this whole time it hasn't been mentioned.

"Removal of attributes was also mentioned, but the idea is still in quite an early stage. It's something they want to do as it's on the level as learning skills, so that people don't have to get locked into training skills in a non-optimal order for use in order to train at the optimal speed. There is still some discussion around what would possibly be done with learning implants (keep them, flat bonus, something else). There are also questions as to what the rate would be with the changes. Ali brought up some feedback that some veteran players like the space it gives you to optimize your character, but overall supports removing attributes. There was also the point of learning implants disincentive PVP, especially in null and WH."

OK looking at removing attributes seems to be on the cards and in its early stages.
It would be great to keep the implants available to increase training time so that when you go AFK for an extended holiday it is always great to log back in and have some of those long skills trained.

Maybe have a x2, x3 or x4 training speed implant.

Learning implants disincentive PVP, what ever. If people don't PVP because of a learning implant then they are doing it wrong. Have a clone that does that for you and you can PVP all you want.

Quick edit to address some of the posts. There was a time when you had to log in to update your skill que because guess what didnt have this never ending que.

I very rarely remap. I did it the first time the other day. In the mean time all my attributes have been all at same level so you can do things with general attributes.

Lastly does everyone else have three character slots or is it just me. I have one that train industrial, one that is my market guru and one for PVP. Oh yeah thats right there is now the opportunity to multiple character train by using PLEX.

Bugger me there are ways around each point. IF your PVP toon now whats to be an industrial toon, then use another character.

You may be asking for instant gratification but I was not (see what I did there) I was just pointing out a reason why """I""" thought CCP may be looking at revamping or removing attributes and how they could be holding back the game. I get you don't like change but making dismissive statements does not a counter point make.

Actually I played the game for years just fine when re-mapping wasn't even an option. So no, this isn't a "you want it easy, I walked uphill 5 miles in the snow both ways, grumble grumble".

Re-mapping impacts newbies way more than older players because they have so many more skills to train, they need to diversify their training, they often have no idea what skills they even need and they often have no clue what they even want to do in the game. And the reason for leaving it in is so people who use 3rd party tools can get 10-15% more SP?

Just sink it into implants instead. Newbies can use cheap ones or focus on buying implants that focus on their current specific path while vets and "I'm training for my titan" guys can buy 1 billion isk training implants.

THINK OF THE NEWBIES! Malcanis' law applies here just fine. Besides, if it's "just 10-15%" as you put it then it doesn't really matter at all, does it.

It's all excuses, it's people who want to min-max without the min part. Nothing more, nothing less, and any "logic" or "reasoning" once could come up with is just a "I don't like consequences to my choices and I would like to have MOAR without any drawbacks" while trying to mask it as "nonono, it's better for the game, it's for the newbies don't you see".

And the more people try to concoct these hilarious :reasons: the more hilarious it becomes.



fact 1: no one is forced to remap
fact 2: one can remap to a generally ok option that fits a chosen play style
fact 3: new players have 3 remaps to toy with, that's more than enough
fact 4: this is EVE, where your choice may have consequences
fact 5: people don't like consequences and will make up stories about how the game would be better off without them

Attributes affect how fast you can learn skills. All skills have 2 attribs, a main one and a secondary one. The higher your attribs are the faster you'll train skills that make use of those attribs.

Generally attribs are kinda grouped into skill pools. Gunnery, missiles and ship skills use perc and willpower. Most tanking and support ship skills are int/mem. Production related stuff is mostly mem and int. So you can see that, generally, one can make informed decision for their attribs based on what type of skills/play style they're looking for.

OR, one can just ignore it altogether, remap to a "decently good for everything, but with low charisma" remap and just stop bothering with it. EVE is not about skill points, it's not about having goals that lay ahead 2 years. It's about doing what you want to do (Most things in EVE can be done on low SP, people just have this minmax addiction where it has to be perfect).

So, you're fine to simply ignore it all and enjoy the game, you're fine to find a generally logical remap and leave it at that. You're also fine to go full min-max, but that means that along with the max you also have to agree to the min. And this is the crux of this whole debate, people want the max but aren't prepared for the min, so they come up with amazing solutions that (amazingly) always includes upping attribs to (near) max, while having no min at all.



So, given that if you do it all "correctly" you will end up with more SP after a given time than if you didn't. and that may/will result in better performance, you might have a lvl 5 turret damage support skill instead of "just" lvl 4. Stuff like that.


Besides, by the time you get 40 mil SP you really start training clown shoe skills unless you want to go (super)caps.

Thank you for the information.