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Latest CSM notes : Rumours of attribute points/implants being removed.

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Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#21 - 2015-01-24 20:02:22 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
My opinion is: of all the things that they can do to get people to PVP more even if they don't want to, it's not one of the worst.

I would undock more if there were no attribute implants to worry about. I would also train differently if all the skills trained at whatever max rate we have when properly remapped. And I'm a carebear, so the PVP'ers would have an increasingly target-rich environment.

Yes, the game is changing, and it remains to be seen whether it's ultimately for the good or the bad. CCP does go ahead and do whatever they want, so basically we can complain about changes but ultimately we can't really prevent them.

Quote:

Eve needs risk to be Eve else it becomes just another run of the mill MMO.

Oh, it has a ways to go yet, considering that you don't lose your armor when you die in most current MMO's.

that's only your excuse

if they remove that risk you will find another excuse why to avoid pvp
Orlacc
#22 - 2015-01-24 20:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Orlacc
Commentus Nolen wrote:
Orlacc wrote:


And of course they are removing the mission refusal penalties for the "only PVE" crowd.


Please link.


CSM meeting notes is where I think I saw it.

Being discussed. But I am sure it will be implemented sooner than later.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#23 - 2015-01-24 22:41:19 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post .

The Rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#24 - 2015-01-24 23:32:33 UTC
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.
Sugar Smacks
Khanid Royal Navy
Khanid.
#25 - 2015-01-24 23:55:28 UTC
I just dont see implants going anywhere personally.

Its this whole level of money that gets removed from the game constantly or as some call an isk sink.

Attribute points, well thats up to them, but lets hope they add something other than just taking away.
Serene Repose
#26 - 2015-01-25 00:30:59 UTC
Exaggerate much? Learning implants? Incentive to mission?? Did you strain hard to come up with this post?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Vyl Vit
#27 - 2015-01-25 00:35:32 UTC
RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR???

Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved.

RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR??

HINT HINT

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#28 - 2015-01-25 01:56:57 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.

Why not remove skills? Everyone has the same set of skills, none of that additional garbage.
Why not remove fits as well? Every ship does exactly the same thing. Prefit with weapons, prop mods, and other default capabilities. None of that additional garbage.
Why not remove all except one ship? Then it's just player skills, none of that other distracting crap.
Why not remove the sandbox entirely? Then we can make it one-on-one, and only then can we truly see who shines above the rest.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#29 - 2015-01-25 01:57:51 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR???

Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved.

RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR??

HINT HINT

It's in the CSM notes, so it's not really a rumor. It's "CCP/CSM is talking about this, let's talk about the implications."
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#30 - 2015-01-25 02:02:27 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR???

Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved.

RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR??

HINT HINT

Amazingly Learning Implants are very easy to compensate people for. Additionally there is no reason they would need to spend months running it past us.
It's a very simple and obvious result that would happen, not complex at all.
Peoples reactions in terms of risk taking is a little harder. But certainly some people would PvP a little more. Clone removal appears to have had a minor up tick after all.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#31 - 2015-01-25 09:50:09 UTC
I'm still personally against the idea of removing attribute/learning implants and the ability to target attributes so learning can be done quicker.

Several people have noted that if/when the attribute/learning implants are removed from the game that we will have more slots available to use to increase other in-game capabilities. The trouble with this is 'powercreep' so inevitably the strengths of the hardwiring would have to be halved to compensate. Then we would be paying probably double the ISK on hardwiring and/or implants to get back to where we are atm. Similar to what happened with industry where we had decent skills to alleviate 'waste' which were changed and 'teams' were brought in. Paying twice for the same thing.

So I would say if we were to lose the learning implant slots then it would be better to just have five slots for the hardwirings and lose the ten slot option.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#32 - 2015-01-25 09:52:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR???

Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved.

RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR??

HINT HINT

Amazingly Learning Implants are very easy to compensate people for. Additionally there is no reason they would need to spend months running it past us.
It's a very simple and obvious result that would happen, not complex at all.
Peoples reactions in terms of risk taking is a little harder. But certainly some people would PvP a little more. Clone removal appears to have had a minor up tick after all.


We have jump clones to alleviate risk already. With the new skills the changeover time is reduced. With the medical clones gone now I don't see a real problem.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#33 - 2015-01-25 09:58:50 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.

Remove all ships except 1. Modules too.

Just 1 ship and a single fit in the game.

Exciting stuff.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-01-25 10:01:55 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.

Remove all ships except 1. Modules too.

Just 1 ship and a single fit in the game.

Exciting stuff.

Velator4Lyfe
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-01-25 10:11:33 UTC
The impression I got was absolutely nothing was said about learning implants. Sure, attributes may be going the way of the dodo (and possibly good riddance), but that doesn't mean implants have to (just change them to a % training time on certain skill categories, and voila).

I do love how at the slightest whiff of a change the posters who get a dose of the greedy. You can see which posters have got star filled eyes, fully expecting everyone to be upgraded to the training speed of fully-specialised remaps with +5s as standard. Personally, I hope for a more "average" levelling out if something where to occur, give the average guy (who runs with +3s maybe 50% of the time, and occasionally trains a skill off-remap) a nice buff, but the forever-docked in full +5s get a speed nerf.
Genevieve Bluecoat
The Good Place
#36 - 2015-01-25 10:12:43 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
I just dont see implants going anywhere personally.

Its this whole level of money that gets removed from the game constantly or as some call an isk sink.


Since many implants are earned through mission rewards, there is no isk removed from the game when they are created as objects. The only time implants act as an isk sink is where the implant is acquired from a Loyalty Point store in which isk is used as part of the purchase price. As such, they're not particularly effective isk sinks and I would suspect this is not a major reason to keep them.

Clone costs were a much more effective isk sink, and those were removed.
Genevieve Bluecoat
The Good Place
#37 - 2015-01-25 10:14:36 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
The impression I got was absolutely nothing was said about learning implants. Sure, attributes may be going the way of the dodo (and possibly good riddance), but that doesn't mean implants have to (just change them to a % training time on certain skill categories, and voila).


But this change would be completely pointless. If attributes are removed then it just means they're being glossed over and game play remains unaltered - and people would still feel obliged to buy these implants early in place of, you know, having fun.
Nalia White
Tencus
#38 - 2015-01-25 11:27:58 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.


that's the right mindset for playing eve right there folks!

we should even remove all the graphics and stuff. who needs more than a dot and two lines on each side to play video games?

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#39 - 2015-01-25 11:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Just as lazy carebears start "wouldn't it be better if we'd just remove [action that requires 3 braincells] or [allowing random people into your mission] or [forced PVP]" threads, other lazy risk averse people start "wouldn't it be better if we'd remove implants and attributes, we'd surely start pvping more". And they always try to sell it as "it would be better for the game" while they actually mean "it would be better for me, because I'm lazy". It's always obvious, it's always hilarious.

Attributes are FINE and allow you to make choices, choices which have pros and drawbacks; if you choose to focus your attribs then you choose to not train fast outside that focus. If you don't like that then don't choose a focussed remap. A simple case of "actions have consequences" and the more consequences you remove from the game, the less it remains EVE.

People want to have their cake and eat it, and they'll come up with amazingly "well thought out " (lol) reasonings and logical posts as to why they should be allowed exactly that. NO!
Solhild
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-01-25 12:17:40 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:

1) This idea seems to remove an additional element of risk to undocking in New Eden. I along with probably a lot of capsuleers do not like it when they are podded and have to replace implants & hardwiring but it is a part of the game. This idea follows the recent removal of medical clones which arguably was a good idea but I don't think we needed to go further than that change.

2) This change would be another kick in the pants to the missions system, mission/LP revenue and various career sub-options such as selling ore for storyline missions etc. I would argue that too many revenue ideas have been removed or made uneconomic already.

3) I feel this is another case of dumbing down of the game. Are we eventually going to get to a point where EVE Online is like many other MMOs where items are just collected within the game and nothing gets destroyed ?

I invite comments and ask whether people feel the attribute point & implants are a nice complication within the game or whether we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. Im For It !


I agree. Get rid of that nonsense. I'll still use various hardwiring so there would still be a risk with some of my clones.
I'm certain that I would undock much more often in risky situations, especially using my higher sp clones.