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High-sec Suicide Gankers—sucess rate, risk, profit? etc...

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#21 - 2015-01-17 10:11:53 UTC
Ruinoso wrote:
If you're a high-sec suicide ganker, what is your success rate? Meaning, what percentage of your attempted ganks end up with your target popping?

Is there any substantial monetary risk to you in engaging in suicide ganking? Clearly, you're going to lose ISK in a ship and outfitting, but other than that?

Do you profit from high-sec suicide ganking? If so, where does it land? (ISK per day/week/month, etc.) And from whence comes the profit, primarily? (haulers, miners, etc...)


Depends. For miners and freighters the percentage chance is high. You can scan and have time to decide to go for it or not. You still will lose ships to miscalculation (boosts and implants you don't know about, human error, etc.), a bad warp-in, or a white knight/opportunist, a disconnect (facpo can get you), but it must be 90% plus. That said, that is the success rate for after you commit - your "success rate" for any given target is quite low. You will have to pass over many targets because they are paying attention, too tanked, moving too fast to catch, in a pocket you can't get a warp in on and so on. In those cases though you just lose time not ships.

Now, for miners the profit per gank is so low that you do not make much at all. If you loot your own wreck you might make 5M ISK per gank. With the 15 min timer, and the odd failed gank, you are talking a very poor income for a player. Sure, you might catch a silly person AFKing in a faction fit barge, but that is quite rare that you can't count on it as income.

For haulers it is better because players seem to think it is a good idea to overload thier transport ships. Freighter ganking can pay ok, but it requires a huge effort of a group of players so by the time you factor in effort in logistics, bumping and scouting, you are still less than a L4 mission payout. Still, one player's poor judgement can pay for a lot of ganks ships.

T1 haulers pay well and can be done by one or a couple players. I find it requires a lot of patience and can be quite variable depending on other players. You are also more vulnerable to interference from others scooping your loot and the like. I have only dabbled in it so I can't give you a real number, but if I had to guess all the waiting around for a viable target makes it also less than L4 mission running. But if you wanted profit, I would start ganking here, although you pretty much need to risk the more expensive gank cruisers or better for this because of gate guns.

Thrasher ganking of juicy pods can also be an income stream. The bounties on juicy pods can be significant, but typically you aren't going to make more than 10M ISK/h regularly unless you get lucky.

As to risk, a failed ganked significantly eats into your profits which are already marginal. Bringing out a Brutix or Talos can be quite risky, even if you have done the math and are sure that the blinged out Mackinaw is worth it. The loot fairy can be quite cruel too, although one hopes that if you gank enough, the odds will even out over time.

But if you stick to gank cats and thrashers, you aren't risking too much at one time. However, it is still more risky than running missions, and the pay is significantly worse. That is why you typically see only the "true believers" ganking in Eve these days aside from a few pirates that still prey on haulers - if it was profitable and risk-free more players would do it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#22 - 2015-01-17 10:26:16 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
That is why you typically see only the "true believers" ganking in Eve these days aside from a few pirates that still prey on haulers - if it was profitable and risk-free more players would do it.


Conversely, the above is also why the incursion community has never been larger.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Snuggle Society.
#23 - 2015-01-17 11:38:57 UTC
I make little profit, haulers, shuttles, pods, miners, my own alts, I blow em all up!
I usually let newbros get the goodies or blow up the wrecks too!
If i was hauler ganking for profit id say 500m a day but I usually shoot everything I think I have a 3% chance of killing.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.

Charlie Jacobson
#24 - 2015-01-17 12:54:26 UTC
I gank for fun, not profit. The goal is mostly to get killmails that are worth more than the value of my suicide boats. To me, multiboxing is NOT fun, and I mostly play solo, so I rarely get to scoop the loot.

My success rate is pretty high since I tend to use a venture with a passive targeter and a ship scanner to scan my victims in advance and bookmark a warp-in point. I then do some quick math on how much damage I'll need. Things can still go wrong, though. I've failed ganks by opening fire while I was too far away to apply full damage, and by not knowing that the victim could stow his ship in an Orca even while being shot at. The road to knowledge of EVE mechanics is paved with hilarious failures.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-01-17 13:00:06 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Not everyone is ISK driven, so there are other ways to profit.


Only those that hoard ISK, think that everything revolves around ISK.

I prefer to have fun and waste ISK, then to make ISK and not have fun playing.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-01-17 13:49:04 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Not everyone is ISK driven, so there are other ways to profit.


Only those that hoard ISK, think that everything revolves around ISK.

I prefer to have fun and waste ISK, then to make ISK and not have fun playing.

This.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Serene Repose
#27 - 2015-01-17 14:18:52 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Bait thread is bait.

Pass the Twinkies please. Cool

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Paranoid Loyd
#28 - 2015-01-17 18:25:22 UTC
Black Pedro wrote a nice synopsis, T1 hauler ganking is the most profitable but if you are calculating isk/hr/account you can make more running missions. The thing is I personally would go insane running that many missions. Some people can do it, I guess it comes down to what is fun for you.

Like anything in the game, the risk is minimal once you fully understand the mechanics, are paying attention and understand what your opponents can and can not do. If you are missing one or more of those things, the risk goes up exponentially assuming there is someone there to apply that risk. The more profile you gain through ganking the more likely the chance of someone being there to apply that risk. Then there are also the random opportunist who happen to be passing by and may be capable of screwing up your day.

The friends, enemies and the content that is all a result of "being the bad guy" is what makes it fun. PVE is fun until you get it all figured out, then it just becomes a grind. Making isk by way of ganking creates a constantly changing environment as well as a nice flow of income to fund additional content generation if you have the patience to carefully choose your targets.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Memphis Baas
#29 - 2015-01-17 20:19:22 UTC
It does sound, though, like once you "figure the ganking out" it becomes more fun for you, in direct opposition to the PVE being figured out. So I think you're lying to yourself a little.

In any case, it's a multiple-account activity that minimizes the risk by having the -10 char stay offline until it's time to go for the kill, and meta-games the combat mechanics to the limit via bumping, dragging Concord away, and other things I probably don't even know about.

And meanwhile, the target is focused on meta-gaming their profits to the limit, and as a result is completely unprepared for the combat and behaves in completely predictable ways, like an NPC.

OP, if you're trying to write a guide, it's not gonna work. It's like asking traders to tell you their trade routes and profits.
Paranoid Loyd
#30 - 2015-01-17 20:42:48 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
It does sound, though, like once you "figure the ganking out" it becomes more fun for you, in direct opposition to the PVE being figured out. So I think you're lying to yourself a little.
I'm not sure what you mean by lying to myself a little.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#31 - 2015-01-17 20:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Back when I routinely ganked...

- the "success rate" of destroying a target ship was pretty good (assuming we scouted and organized properly).

- the amount of ISK rewards were pretty good (assuming we scouted our targets properly and/or actually cared about making a profit).
NOTE: it was always (and yet not) surprising to see how much people carried in their ships without taking precautions.

- the biggest pitfall was the amount of TIME that had to be sunk into each gank.
Moving pre-fit ships to the proper area, scouting the number of potential targets in the area (if any), waiting for the targets to come into the system, how "smart" the targets were (sometimes they would just randomly warp/log off)... etc.

Often, we would be waiting for a good hour between each gank (all 6 of us). And there would be days where there were no "good" ganks to be had... at which point we would just gank for "fun" and eat the cost of our ships.


A lot of people think that ganking is easy. Just hop into a cheap dessie, warp, gank, wait out the 15 minute timer, rinse, and repeat.
The truth is... it is a tedious profession that requires you to invest a fair amount of time... because your ability to succeed depends entirely on the choices (good or bad) of other players.
Ruinoso
Silver Talon
#32 - 2015-01-17 21:14:58 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Bait thread is bait.






No bait. Honest thread. Looks like EVE has produced yet another paranoid cynic. Congrats.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2015-01-17 21:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Koz Katral
On the off chance this is a legitimate thread, I will give you a legitimate answer.

I go through phases of suicide ganking barges if my play time is short and I want to do something more chill than roaming.

- My success rate is probably around 90%. (9/10 ganks succeed, although when I started out it was more like 2/3)
- Failed ganks usually occur because I make a mistake (miscalculate required dps or get the warp in wrong.)
- In around 100 ganks*, only once has player intervention ever succeeded in stopping my gank attempt.
- I make no profit from it, all ganks occur at a small loss after I have scooped the loot with an alt.
- I gank out of a lowsec system with nearby high secs with my main, I don't have any kind of dedicated gank alts.
- I see it as just a fun activity (for me) that is fairly easy, doesn't take very long and helps add a little bit of eve reality to the otherwise ordinary life of a lonely miner.


*honestly it may be more or less than this, I haven't been counting. I know it was only once though because it stands out in my mind above all the others.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2015-01-17 22:39:09 UTC
My solo success rate is kinda low, but my boxed gank group was 66% (2/3) on freighters, and I operated a "hit for hire" in jita for certain station games players, and i don't consider those ganks for profit like the freighters. I will say I did make money after replacing the Talos's. The 1 freighter that escaped was due to a failed bump by a stabber, and he had an estimated 40-50b worth of BPOs in the hold. I made about 3b combined on the two freighters, after SRP. I was the muscle, with two scanners / bumpers / scouts. I tested it on Sisi, and according to my math and tests, I would be able with 8x Talos to take out a Charon in a 0.6 system off grid of turrets with CONCORD pull with bulkheads. Nobody was able to stop us, even with an emergency Dramiel webber in one case and a counter-Nado in another.
Serene Repose
#35 - 2015-01-17 23:47:07 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
It does sound, though, like once you "figure the ganking out" it becomes more fun for you, in direct opposition to the PVE being figured out. So I think you're lying to yourself a little.
I'm not sure what you mean by lying to myself a little.
That's because you're Paranoid, Lloyd.

Speaking of psychosis. Serial killers describe what they do in precisely the same way. Interesting. Cool

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#36 - 2015-01-18 00:48:22 UTC
Ruinoso wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Bait thread is bait.






No bait. Honest thread. Looks like EVE has produced yet another paranoid cynic. Congrats.


In EVE the paranoid thrive. An interesting thread with some useful information on ganking successfully. :)
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-01-18 00:54:19 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Ruinoso wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Bait thread is bait.






No bait. Honest thread. Looks like EVE has produced yet another paranoid cynic. Congrats.


In EVE the paranoid thrive. An interesting thread with some useful information on ganking successfully. :)

Paranoia is a survival trait Twisted

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#38 - 2015-01-20 08:10:57 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Post with stuck capslock
Please refrain from posting in all-caps in the future. Disregarding this warning might have consequences.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#39 - 2015-01-20 17:43:21 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
In EVE the paranoid thrive. An interesting thread with some useful information on ganking successfully. :)

Paranoia is a survival trait Twisted


So in an apocalypse, only twinkies, cockroaches and Dinsdale will survive....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-01-20 19:30:49 UTC
First, I am not a ganker. However I try to enlighten capsuleers in a non-CODE. ethos on flying properly.

If you're a high-sec suicide ganker, what is your success rate?

The key to everything in New Eden is process and preparation. You can have a 100% success rate if you have more information than your target/enemy. Properly tanked miners for example are much more difficult to pop before you pop... unless you have more man power, but that means more ISK at Risk tm... Knowing what mods your target has fit as well as knowing their cargo are how you will balance risk v. reward. If you attack at random expect to lose much more than you will ever gain.

Is there any substantial monetary risk to you in engaging in suicide ganking? Clearly, you're going to lose ISK in a ship and outfitting, but other than that?

It can take 500m-1b in ships/mods to take a target out before CONCORD wins the race of destrucion.. Tornadoes on a freighter for example. ~100m ISK per Tornado. But as has been mentioned, too many do it for the currency of tears and rage. And keep in mind you do not always simply lose ISK. You lose security status (not enough imho) and this can be a PITA to get back up enough just to get into Niarja w/o dying on decloak.

Do you profit from high-sec suicide ganking? If so, where does it land?

It's pure luck. Even if you have a target with mods/cargo worth risking everything you have there is no guarantee it will drop to be looted. You might get that 2b ISK shield mod or you might be left with that 1.5m ISK DCII. In the end, you will get tired of the game and grind for sec status. Yes, it's fun to have a d!ck alt but you will loathe the tedium of constantly trying to keep a gank alt flyable in ganking space.
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