Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is really the only argument any of you who defend this can make? You can't address or rebut any of my points? I'll answer your questions though, even though you've designed them to bait answers into your linear argument against local chat.

Do you feel that you would be more comfortable in:

A) Knowing someone was in system AFK and cloaked.
B) Or not knowing if someone is in system AFK and cloaked.

Answer: Doesn't matter, I only reason I play is for PVP (I have the means to not have to rat or mine) and every system that is inhabited by an unfriendly or neutral player (weather I know it or not) is an opportunity for PVP. Equally comfortable in either situation. A baited questioned intended to draw one into the argument that your discomfort is only a result of local.

How do you know these people are AFK?

Answer: You only know when they're doing something to show you that they're not afk. Another baited question designed to pull one into the argument that if they're not afk, then they can't hurt you. It ignores the argument that the relevant activity in afk cloaking is cloaking itself. I don't care about a counter to being afk and I'm not going to ask CCP to put a shock collar on players to discipline them when they step away from the keyboard to pee. The virtually uncounterable mechanic in question is cloaking. Ta-da!

How do you feel about Local Chat?

A) I Like it a lot, I use it for all my intel.
B) I don't really need it.

Answer: Love it when I have it, know how to work without it if I don't. This question apparently assumes that I'm unfamiliar with watchlists, locator agents, dotlan, my eyeballs, killboards, spies, scouting, gateflash, wormhole thumping, d-scan, station guest lists, word of mouth, twitch streams, forums posts, sov maps, sov statistics, static mapper and the internet in general. I know you think I'm dumb because you disagree with me, but that's just insulting.

What do you think came first?

A) The Chicken.
B) The Egg.

Answer: Eggs evolved long (a few hundred million years) before chickens. Also, afk cloaking is still a powerful tool inside wormholes.

If you didn't have Local Chat how would you determine an AFK Cloaker?

A) I would watch the gate on an alt or have a friend do it to see who comes in and out of system.
B) I would stay docked up.
C) No one is in local but me, I can rat rat rat.

Answer: Do what I normally do, which is to look for content. If I could find your afk alts I'd probably come right for them.

Your line of thinking is a dead end that' was mapped out a long time ago. You already have plenty tools to catch unaware ratters in all corners of space if that's your goal, despite the fact they've got local. All I want is to kill your cyno-bomber toons, is that really so much to ask?

Always the same phrases. The cloak itself + the logged in player is causing trouble through willingly assured harrasment. And if you tell me that the cloak itself creates no threat, the cyno does.

It is so hard to argue with you, because you do not argue at all. You just spread the same old phrases over and over. I live in W-space and i couldn't care less. If you come to me you would do **** with a cyno bomber. But i can remember how it was in K-space. We killed a lot cyno bombers with smarty BS at entry, but once they were in they were untouchable. No risk at all. No skill needed. In some way this entry in PVP is even worse then noob pve in 0.0. It just gives you some easy kills, some glorified minutes of amusement with doing absolutely nothing risky to achieve it.

Theorycrafting:

Since systemwide cynojammer became more or less useless, maybe we can have a systemwide cloakjammer instead. No cloaking at all. you would need to come in with one of the new recons and hope no one will scan you down.

Quoted for truth.

Also, I read the frist page of posts.

Nothing has changed. -.-

The ideas are all "special ship" "Special Probes" "make cloak use capacitor".... *sigh*

Sorry, I just can't read this thread anymore, I feel like it sucks the life out of me and by the time I'd get to the "decloaking Ammo" part I'd be dead.

"Mom! Jimmy's in my room!"

Being in the same system as you is not harassment, by any definition.

That was a two sentence post. And brevity is the soul of wit, or something along those lines.




No, it is not. What part of "no one has any right to carebear in complete safety" do you fail to understand?

And everyone in system, is safe for the same indefinite period from them. You keep failing to mention, that that argument is a two way street. But what do they see for that period?

It boils down to the same question.

Whilst they are cloaked for that indefinite period of time, which mechanic do they use to interact with you?

It's local of course, you cannot separate the two. Seen by the fact you can AFK and gain the same effect, without a cloak.

I know you don't like the fact that it's psychological, but there is no escaping it. Even when someone is AFK 23.5 hours and not said a word. The fact they have shown in local for all that time, plays on some pilots minds. It's the definition of psychology warfare. Mind games.

If and it's a big if. If any changes need to take place, then ALL the mechanics involved need change. You cannot cherry pick, simply because you fail to see the big picture.

As my soul died after page 5 I'll wade in with this:

The counter to Local was Cloaking and\or Cynos. Local gave too much intel when it spiked and so, IIRC, hot drops became a thing.

When troubleshooting something that's broken you do something called "Root Cause Analysis". The root cause of cynos\hot drops and cloaking is: Local. They were all brought in to counter Local, it's faultless immediate intel for everyone in the system. Local loads you before you even load the grid. Let that sink in a little: People in the system know you are there and can be in-warp to you before you even know you are there.

Now W-Space doesn't have Immediate Local and it doesn't have Cynos\Hot Drops. I wonder why.

Using the argument of "killing AFK gameplay" and cloaking is nerfed by whatever horrible means:

If I enter a non-NPC Null Sec system with Outposts\Stations and I can see people in Local but I can't find them at any celestial, POS, anomaly or site I am left to assume they are either: Cloaked or Docked up in a station I don't have access to. I can't verify either so I would like anyone docked in any NPC or non-NPC station that is AFK to be ejected after 1 hour so I can kill them.

Joking aside, this argument will always come around to the root cause that is Local.

In fact another example that I can draw on is that High Sec doesn't have this "AFK Cloaker" problem and yet so much more traffic goes through it. Do I use Local as an intel tool: yes. I can see Criminals and Suspects flashing away, standings I've set on others and all sorts of other goodness but I fear the legendary "AFK Cloaker" as much as I fear the "AFK Ganker" = can't do shizz to me and my biz. It's those active frackers I need to be on my toes for, so I watch local, D-Scan and fit accordingly.

Cov-Ops by their very design have 1 major defence system: The Cloak. Once they decloak their life expectancy is very short with next to very little tank.

EDIT: In fact this would be hilarious in Jita when I have to re-route because Jita is full. That affects my gameplay and I want those people logged off after 5 mins of inactivity. Jita should be GIGO = Get-In, Get-Out...if only to escape the barage of Local rubbish.

Afk cloakers arent an issue in wspace because we didnt see them to begin with, unless our scout saw them enter system

Afk cloakers are only an issue in nullsec generally, and possibly lowsec. Although I rarely hear lowsec complain about it, certainly no where near as much as nullsec does.

Why is it an issue in kspace but not in wspace? Well the answer is simple, Local Chat Channel.

Just remove local from kspace. To hell with nerfing cloaking because 1 area of EVE (nullsec carebears) has a problem with it.

If I am an afk cloaker, what affect do I have if there is no local and no one knows I am there?

Id rather cloaked ships be cloaked from local. Noncloaked ships show up in local.

While I agree that this would solve the AFK cloak problem some have, it should come with other balancing factors. A simple move like this could make cloakers a little too powerful, unless other changes took place.