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The Post-Oxytopes World

First post
Author
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#281 - 2011-12-01 07:20:53 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down?

Because at around 2.3k for oxytopes, assuming a moderate-towards-high skills Covetor with just T1 gear (for uber-cheapness) used for both ice and ore mining, mining Blue Ice becomes roughly as profitable as mining some of the lousier highsec ores (before that, mining any ore, selling it, then and blue ice is better for your bottom line), so the only people who REALLY have an interest in ice mining (in particular Blue Ice mining) being people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining.
When oxytopes go somewhat over 2.3k and Blue Ice roughly over 700k per block, it becomes more profitable in ISK/hour to mine Blue Ice as opposed to mining junk ore in that cheapo barge, so THAT is when people will REALLY START TO CONSIDER that they might be attracted to mining Blue Ice as opposed to, say, continuing to mine Veldspar or Pyroxeres or whatever, in other words, when Goon interdiction measures will finally start to encounter some SIGNIFICANT increases in potential targets.

If Goons can break over and roughly maintain (or even keep increasing) that oxytopes price level in spite of the (amount unknowable) additional quantities of product that will unavoidably and eventually slip past Goon Gallente-space-wide interdiction, THEN I will be convinced that it's the interdiction that's mainly the driver behind the price spike, as opposed to other non-interdiction related factors.


All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost.


What does it matter that the fuel cost of running a Gallente POS has slightly more than doubled (now that people can switch to other types fairly easily) or that the cost of operating a Gallente capital has tripled (on a fairly low initial cost anyway) if, on one hand, the stated Goon goal was to make it go sky-high (noticeably higher than it already is), and on the other hand, to prove they can successfully interdict people that WANT to mine Gallente ice ?
All that matters is whether people would BOTHER to break your "interdiction" or not. So far, there has been little to no incentive to do it because ice mining sucks ISK-wise compared to the already-sorta-sucking ore mining (both for highsec). As soon as it STOPS totally sucking ISK-wise, that's when you're really going to see the TRUE test of the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Goon interdiction campaign.

Are you honestly saying that at the current already-dropping-again level of oxytopes operating a Gallente capital ship is REALLY all that costly to REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things ?
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#282 - 2011-12-16 23:13:52 UTC
Well, finally some decent movement, but I'm still not quite convinced yet.
Push harder, boys !
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#283 - 2011-12-16 23:33:43 UTC
Akita T wrote:

Push harder, boys !


You shouldn't be saying that.

You're not even married with all those boys

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Loki Ember
State War Academy
Caldari State
#284 - 2011-12-17 14:46:25 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:


All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost.


I think you're missing the point of that individual's post. Per that individual, the cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel may have tripled, but it's been kept artificially low (in fact, at a fraction of a reasonable price) by "people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining."

What they're really getting at is: "ok, congrats on taking the lazy and the dumb people out of the equation, now let's see how well you deal with profit-minded people who have brains in their heads once breaking the blockade starts making financial sense". I haven't run the numbers myself to see where that threshold lies, but I will say that from the perspective of economics, rational individuals with a solid profit motive will be vastly more difficult to deal with than those otherwise motivated (be they bots or the low man on the corporate totem pole who's assigned to fetch fuel, etc.)
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#285 - 2011-12-17 22:18:00 UTC
Loki Ember wrote:
I haven't run the numbers myself to see where that threshold lies

2300 per oxytope is roughly about "meh, maybe worth trying" level.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#286 - 2011-12-18 07:37:03 UTC
Assuming 72 blocks/hr for a Mack (w/ Orca booster).

25 LOz @ 450 = 810k ISK/hr
50 HW @ 170 = 612k ISK/hr
300 Isotopes @ 1500 = 32.4M ISK/hr

So at 2500 ISK/u, your theoretical mackinaw could be pulling about 55.4M ISK/hr raw, figure 20% of that gets burned up by hauling characters.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#287 - 2011-12-18 15:11:14 UTC
Hardly worth risking Macks and Orcas and such to a Goon blockade even at those numbers.
Was thinking more along the lines of inconspicuous off-grid battlecruiser booster and T1-fit unrigged Covetor mining the ice.
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
#288 - 2011-12-18 17:03:44 UTC
Funny for me the problem has ALWAYS been liquid ozone as the bottleneck for my pos ops.


This isotope interdiction has not really affected the high sec pos I run much.

Mostly because 6 of us share the burden doing t2 production in a Gallente Large POS.
So the cost per person has went from 30mil per month to about 50mil per month. Yeah it has doubled but when profits are in the 600-700mil range per member, it is a non issue.

So, yeah, you guys did spike the prices, yaay! Go Goon Swarm!
It really is a non issue for the high sec care bear POS owner.
If you keep it up we will switch to a caldari or some such, but that should be pain free.....and we needed to switch for a while.
So thanks for adding impetus to what we already needed to do.

Woo Glin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#289 - 2011-12-18 18:35:26 UTC
1/10
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#290 - 2011-12-18 20:26:23 UTC
Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#291 - 2011-12-18 20:26:50 UTC
double post great forum
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#292 - 2011-12-18 20:42:57 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Ice interdiction officially over.

Source ?
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#293 - 2011-12-18 20:48:02 UTC
Akita T wrote:

Source ?


mittani state of the gunion.

one of the 1k people that were there can confirm
CEO Rockhound
suspended animations DOT
None Of The Above
#294 - 2011-12-18 23:47:13 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL


LOL, that is not true
It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.

They are just going to talk the price into the basement, buy up any stocks left out there once it hits about 800 PU, and get right back into shooting mackinaws.

Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#295 - 2011-12-18 23:51:23 UTC
CEO Rockhound wrote:
LOL, that is not true
It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.

They are just going to talk the price into the basement, buy up any stocks left out there once it hits about 800 PU, and get right back into shooting mackinaws.


1500 Goons and co reinforcing all of Branch as we speak would like to disagree with you.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2011-12-19 00:03:35 UTC
CEO Rockhound wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL
LOL, that is not true
It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.

They are just going to talk the price into the basement, buy up any stocks left out there once it hits about 800 PU, and get right back into shooting mackinaws.

Good to see pubbies are as much in denial when we stop interdicting, as we are when we begin.

This is useful data and will be used to good effect in the future.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#297 - 2011-12-19 00:08:17 UTC
If you guys are dumping the boring and not all that profitable interdiction to go get'em technetium moon and cartel it all, that would be super, m'kay ?
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#298 - 2011-12-19 00:08:48 UTC
CEO Rockhound wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL


LOL, that is not true
It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.


I take it you haven't looked at the Jita market lately.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2011-12-19 01:17:57 UTC
There's actually still pubbies 0.01 warrioring it. :shirk:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jenshae Chiroptera
#300 - 2011-12-19 03:11:19 UTC
Watch the prices drop back down to be competitive.

Right from the start I saw comments such as "Goons are just attention desperate" "They make a splash but the pond goes back smooth again when they are gone."

All Goons can ever achieve in EVE, is one day people who know each other and played EVE will say, "Remember those turds in EVE? What were their names? Cretin Flock or something?" "Yeah, that was some funny stuff. They really got some people wound up. Poor kids."

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.