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I want ISK Titan Smash! 3rd January 2015 - TIME CHANGED TO 7PM!!!

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Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#121 - 2015-01-07 16:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Altirius Saldiaro
DJWiggles wrote:
Last nights BC show on Eve-Radio with the updated Dramalamadingdong is now as a podcast Here


Listenin to it now.

Edit: The iwantisk guy sounds like a whining little girl. If that's who runs that site, I definitely will never use his site.
I agree with hairy, he's just a ******* gold digger.
Corbin DalIas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2015-01-07 23:53:33 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Nashh Kadavr wrote:
In the early hours of this morning I was served with the ultimatum to apologize publicly or lose the I Want Isk sponsorship for #EVE_NT. I could but won’t post the related chat log as I do not think it would be appropriate.

As I refuse to publicly (or privately) apologize for what was a successful in-game event all participation by I Want Isk has now officially been removed.

There is the matter of 100 billion isk that has been sent to me as part of the prize fund for #EVE_NT that has been requested back from I Want Isk. My conversation this morning ended with me explaining I will consider this, however I am in no position until later tonight (I am at work) to send this back. I Want Isk have therefore taken the stance that I have refused to send back this isk.

This is simply not true, but as they have already slandered my name regardless; now I do refuse to send back the isk. It doesn’t feel right to use this isk as prizes at #EVE_NT as it would still be related to I Want Isk and that just doesn’t seem appropriate. I will not be keeping this for myself; instead I have sent it to Chribba to hold on to until the next PLEX-for-good campaign and I will donate the full amount to charity.
Posting to confirm that I have received the 100b and will be held and kept for use at a future PLEX for Good event held by CCP.

/c


You accepted stolen ISK as a donation? Interesting...
But still, it's for a good cause!
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-01-07 23:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: AMGSiR
Wow, Chribba knowingly and willingly accepted ISK you knew didn't belong to the person giving it to him? Well, I'll never be using or recommending you as a 3rd party again. Your entire job as a 3rd party service in EVE is to hold other peoples money and make sure it goes to where it belongs. You've failed this time.

Edit: But yeah, at least it's going to a good cause, even though I Want Isk should have been the ones to make that call.
Prudii
Vector Galactic
#124 - 2015-01-08 01:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Prudii
AMGSiR wrote:
Wow, Chribba knowingly and willingly accepted ISK you knew didn't belong to the person giving it to him? Well, I'll never be using or recommending you as a 3rd party again. Your entire job as a 3rd party service in EVE is to hold other peoples money and make sure it goes to where it belongs. You've failed this time.

Edit: But yeah, at least it's going to a good cause, even though I Want Isk should have been the ones to make that call.



IWANTISK gave Nashh 100b to be used at EVE_NT for prizes. After the event IWANTISK asked for the ISK back and Nashh said he would give it back when he got home from work. That was not fast enough for IWANTISK who had a spergfit and made a post and claimed that Nashh was refusing to return the ISK. Because of IWANTISK acting like a child Nashh decided to not give the ISK back but rather give it to Chribba to be saved for Plex for Good rather then keep it for him self or use it for prizes at an event IWANTISK no longer supported.

At least that is my understanding of the event.

So stop acting like a child, Chribba is doing his job as a third party just as intended. Nothing was stolen and from a legal standpoint all the ISK belongs to CCP anyway.
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-01-08 03:00:03 UTC
Prudii wrote:
AMGSiR wrote:
Wow, Chribba knowingly and willingly accepted ISK you knew didn't belong to the person giving it to him? Well, I'll never be using or recommending you as a 3rd party again. Your entire job as a 3rd party service in EVE is to hold other peoples money and make sure it goes to where it belongs. You've failed this time.

Edit: But yeah, at least it's going to a good cause, even though I Want Isk should have been the ones to make that call.



IWANTISK gave Nashh 100b to be used at EVE_NT for prizes. After the event IWANTISK asked for the ISK back and Nashh said he would give it back when he got home from work. That was not fast enough for IWANTISK who had a spergfit and made a post and claimed that Nashh was refusing to return the ISK. Because of IWANTISK acting like a child Nashh decided to not give the ISK back but rather give it to Chribba to be saved for Plex for Good rather then keep it for him self or use it for prizes at an event IWANTISK no longer supported.

At least that is my understanding of the event.

So stop acting like a child, Chribba is doing his job as a third party just as intended. Nothing was stolen and from a legal standpoint all the ISK belongs to CCP anyway.


So, what you're saying is.. Chribba knowingly and willingly took ISK he knew didn't belong to Nash without the permission of I Want Isk, who had supplied the isk to be used for an event he no longer wanted to sponsor? Got it, thanks for reaffirming exactly what I said. ;)

And for what it's worth, Nash gave the isk away because he KNEW it wasn't his ISK to keep, or hand out at EVE_NT any longer. Despite the fact that he admitted to knowing he couldn't use or keep it, he still felt it was acceptable to give it away to Chribba. Everyone who's saying Nash did nothing wrong here is clearly biased as hell.

This may be EVE, land of the scammers and untrustworthy scumlords, but organizations like EVE_NT, I Want Isk and Chribba's involvement with the community depend almost exclusively on being trustworthy. Nash made a really bad judgement call by not returning the isk "because of pride", as he said on the EVE Radio show, and Chribba was more than okay accepting the funds knowing it belonged to I Want Isk.
Prudii
Vector Galactic
#126 - 2015-01-08 03:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Prudii
You say Chribba is not trustworthy because he wont give the ISK to IWANTISK. I say that makes him more trustworthy. He is a third party not a judge! Someone gave him ISK to be held until the next PLEX for Good event. That's it. Who gave him the ISK and whos ISK it is are not his problem, nor should it be his problem. IWANTISK sent 100b to Nashh, and then Nashh send 100b to Chribba. The reasons why the money was sent are irreverent.

EDIT: The ISK "belongs" to CCP.
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2015-01-08 03:38:42 UTC
You're welcome to opinion, but I personally will not ever use Chribba again, nor will I recommend anyone to Chribba because his actions in this situation make him untrustworthy in my eyes. I'm sure he doesn't care, but that's perfectly fine with me.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#128 - 2015-01-08 07:34:57 UTC
Here's my reasoning from my standpoint. Every time a customer asks for my services I make a decision to either assist or not, sometimes I do help sometimes not, that includes stolen supercaps as well. It is not my place to act as a judge on what is right or wrong, only decide if I want to involve myself or not.

I've assisted supercap trades where the ship has been stolen, I've also declined assisting for the very same reason, and I've also been asked to assist in returning the stolen ship from the thief. If I'm looking at it harshly then it's none of my business if the ISK passing through me was stolen or scammed my job is to secure a transfer/contract, how things originated is not up to me (the obvious limit goes with RMT though as if I know it's RMT ISK I will def not assist).

So in this case, while I don't have the full details, nor does it matter really, I was asked by Nashh to hold 100b for the next CCP PLEX for Good - how he got that ISK (except clear RMT) isn't really any part of the contract he wanted - to give the ISK to CCP.

While some of you feel that this makes me untrustworthy I would say that from my view this transaction isn't very much different from someone selling 100x Carbon masked as a Charon on contracts for 100b and giving said scammed ISK to me to give to CCP. Something I'm sure many would be totally OK with, while it's not exactly the same as far as I know Nashh did have a discussion with I want ISK but situation did not resolve and therefor came to me.

Obviously, if involved parties do come to an agreement the ISK can be returned to I want ISK (or what they agree upon). I personally don't see me accepting this type of contract as being untrustworthy. If I would have to decline assisting thiefs, scammers, griefers and/or other type of less "good" activities in EVE, then a major portion of all the pilots would probably be illegible of getting assistance.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Mr Spaxi
#129 - 2015-01-08 10:18:41 UTC
Don't start another drama here, you bloody drama queens. Chribba is here to be a 3rd party, not to change deals; if he were to give the isk back to IWI, he would lose all of his credibility. Jesus, people, get out of your smart pants and stop making the community ****, you're just sad.
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#130 - 2015-01-08 11:13:41 UTC
AMGSiR wrote:
You're welcome to opinion, but I personally will not ever use Chribba again, nor will I recommend anyone to Chribba because his actions in this situation make him untrustworthy in my eyes. I'm sure he doesn't care, but that's perfectly fine with me.

Just to clarify, you'd trust Chribba more if he violated his good faith as a 3rd party and sent the ISK to who he thinks "should" have it? That's the exact opposite of what you want from a 3rd party, their job is to uphold an agreement between themselves and whoever they're dealing with. Remember when F900ex decided to give stuff trusted to him as a third party to who he decided he wanted the rightful owner to be?

Kings of Lowsec
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#131 - 2015-01-08 15:25:00 UTC
Sorry I was not at the event but I would just like to put in my 2 pence of info on this from a outside point of view as I feel IWANTYOURISKMYWAY Is wrong in this.

I Want ISK wrote:

The prize originally was intended for the final blow on the titan.
The final blow went to the defense fleet.


So the rules where that the last person to shoot it gets the prize.

I Want ISK wrote:

The defense fleet had a major logistical advantage and intel around the solar system.
The defense fleet was not against everyone else. It was a free for all. After all, not blue, shoot it.


So the Titan had a defense fleet and this is a shock to you?

I Want ISK wrote:

The outcome of the defense fleet would not have been the same if it had been anyone else, because then that group would not have had the advantage that the defense fleet had. We actually would have liked to see a group hijack the titan and hold it till they decided to kill it which is likely to happen.


So is this not what the defense fleet did? They defended the titan and then killed the Titan.

I Want ISK wrote:

In the end, the defense fleet that WAS organized by Nassh got the final blow on the titan.
The defense fleet has been connected to Nassh.


Nashh has been playing for some time now and know many people in EVE. He ran EVE_NT event last year and has ran events before. He met many more people in RL at EVE_NT so what is your point here? That because the Bastards where part of Shadow Cartel more than a Year ago and seeing as Shadow Cartel was the fleet who where deffending the Titan and also now that the Titan was killed by a Shadow guy that Nashh is to blame for this?

That some how Nashh planned this to happen? Like Nashh not only runs The Bastard Alliance but also tells Shadow Cartel what to do? LOL

I Want ISK wrote:

The defense fleet knew 48 hours before everyone else where the titan would be located.


I am not sure if you know this but it is a TITAN! When you jump it into system people hitting Dscan know its in system and anybody could have guessed it maybe is the Titan for the Event or told people about the fact that there is a new TiTan in a specific system.

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#132 - 2015-01-08 15:25:51 UTC
I Want ISK wrote:

The defense fleet set up an impenetrable barrier that never engaged more than 250 people at once, even though there were 1700 people in local. (a defense barrier of reported 230+ members)


So the defence fleet was to good at defending a Titan that all of EVE could have come and shoot at?

Dam you should give them a prize for doing their job correctly.

I Want ISK wrote:

The final blow was the only condition for winning. This caused us to change the giveaways to top damage.


Ok so now you changing the rules of the even after the event? This just does not sit well with me at all. The rules where simple. Last hit get prize. You cant change the rules after the event. You are breaking the contract you setup before the event.

You cant be sponsor and then judge the contest not to your liking after the event has been done and then change the outcome of the prize to your liking... I smell a bit of I give you the ISk and you give me 50% back deal going on here. Last hit gets the prize. You owe the person with the last hit ISK.

I Want ISK wrote:

This is why we concluded with still sponsoring the live event (as we have bankers that will be there to do the giveaways of the rest of the ISK) but no longer sponsoring in-game events with this third party.

The sanctity of competition was compromised.


Hell If I was Nashh and you pulled stuff like this I would ask you to not attend at all. Who says that you wount change your mind mid event with the prizes you giving away on the day because you simply felt like the wrong person won.

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2015-01-08 16:34:28 UTC
Mr Spaxi wrote:
Don't start another drama here, you bloody drama queens. Chribba is here to be a 3rd party, not to change deals; if he were to give the isk back to IWI, he would lose all of his credibility. Jesus, people, get out of your smart pants and stop making the community ****, you're just sad.


This is also in response to Dark Flare as your replies were basically the same;

No, I don't think Chribba should have just given the ISK back to I Want Isk because he thought it was the right thing to do, I just don't think he should have touched the money at all since he knew where it came from and the circumstances around it, from what I was told.

I often hear people refer to EVE as "life" in a sense that, the way the game is designed and played, is somewhat like life due to the player and corporation run economy. And much like life, possession of stolen goods is just as illegal as stealing them. Do you know what happens when a politician knowingly and willingly accepts campaign contributions from criminals? They don't get elected, because our trust is in the politician, not the criminal, and we set different standards for the two.

Obviously this isn't life and for the most part, nobody really cares, especially when it's someone as notable as Chribba involved -- but I feel the exact opposite for that reason. Chribba and I Want Isk are two of the biggest corporate entities in EVE and therefor require different standards than everybody else.

But, to be fair, Chribba did say he would return the ISK if Nash agreed to do so which is a step in the right direction. Although I do think he should have said that in his first post when he acknowledged receiving the money, not after he was called out for shady actions.


I guess my question is now, will Nash do the right thing here?
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2015-01-08 16:41:25 UTC
Eric Shang wrote:
I Want ISK wrote:

The defense fleet set up an impenetrable barrier that never engaged more than 250 people at once, even though there were 1700 people in local. (a defense barrier of reported 230+ members)


So the defence fleet was to good at defending a Titan that all of EVE could have come and shoot at?

Dam you should give them a prize for doing their job correctly.

I Want ISK wrote:

The final blow was the only condition for winning. This caused us to change the giveaways to top damage.


Ok so now you changing the rules of the even after the event? This just does not sit well with me at all. The rules where simple. Last hit get prize. You cant change the rules after the event. You are breaking the contract you setup before the event.

You cant be sponsor and then judge the contest not to your liking after the event has been done and then change the outcome of the prize to your liking... I smell a bit of I give you the ISk and you give me 50% back deal going on here. Last hit gets the prize. You owe the person with the last hit ISK.

I Want ISK wrote:

This is why we concluded with still sponsoring the live event (as we have bankers that will be there to do the giveaways of the rest of the ISK) but no longer sponsoring in-game events with this third party.

The sanctity of competition was compromised.


Hell If I was Nashh and you pulled stuff like this I would ask you to not attend at all. Who says that you wount change your mind mid event with the prizes you giving away on the day because you simply felt like the wrong person won.



You seemed to miss the entire point here; The defense fleet was contracted by Nash to protect the Titan, they had a tactical advantage to the event as they knew where the Titan would be and had time to setup for the event in said system upwards of 48 hours prior to the events start. They knew they didn't deserve the prize, and Nash admitted such right on the EVE Radio stream himself.

I Want Isk didn't just randomly change the rules, he adjusted them to allow someone who wasn't part of the event to win AFTER talking to Nash and finding out the defense fleet is who got the last hit. It wasn't fair to give it to the team who were basically involved with the event, but it also wasn't fair to just give the reward to nobody -- so it was given to the only other practical person; the one with the most damage, who thankfully wasn't involved with the Titan's defense.
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#135 - 2015-01-08 19:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Eric Shang
AMGSiR wrote:

You seemed to miss the entire point here; The defense fleet was contracted by Nash to protect the Titan, they had a tactical advantage to the event as they knew where the Titan would be and had time to setup for the event in said system upwards of 48 hours prior to the events start. They knew they didn't deserve the prize, and Nash admitted such right on the EVE Radio stream himself.


Ok I see you cleared it up for me now... So Nashh Contacted Shadow and asked them to defend the Titan and they did do this a little to well and so no one could kill the Titan?

Firstly - Good Work Shadow for actually showing EVE what good Logistics looks like.
Secondly - If you have been to null and there is a Titan to kill and the POS is going out of reinforcement at a set time you also know that there are people coming and you setup for defence. So no diffrence here to what Shadow did on the day. I think what has happend here is that Shadow is actually really good at PVP and maybe thought that more dreads, supers and other titans might show up and prepaired for a good defence but instead got frigates and battleships.

This resulted in no one being able to break the Titan or the defence fleet. Who should then get tthe ISK? Is shadow to blame for being to good at logistics?

AMGSiR wrote:

I Want Isk didn't just randomly change the rules, he adjusted them to allow someone who wasn't part of the event to win AFTER talking to Nash and finding out the defense fleet is who got the last hit. It wasn't fair to give it to the team who were basically involved with the event, but it also wasn't fair to just give the reward to nobody -- so it was given to the only other practical person; the one with the most damage, who thankfully wasn't involved with the Titan's defense.


This makes sense and I can see why they did this. Thanks again for clearing that up for me.

So why has IWANTYOURISKMYWAY then had this massive fallout with Nashh over this?

Event was held and from what I can tell shadow did a amazing job at defending thinking bigger ships like dreads, supers and so on are going to show up but do not and so are faced with Frigates to Battleship fleets. They drag the event on as everyone is having fun and after 4 hours of defending I guess got tired of fighting and had to go do some RL stuff so killed the Titan.

Payment was then changed to top damage who was not part of shadow cartel so all is actually good.

Event is actually a success.

Why would IWANTISK then throw out the toys and start bad mouthing Nashh? This makes no sense to me and it just looks really bad for IWANTISK.

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#136 - 2015-01-08 20:12:33 UTC
AMGSiR wrote:
Mr Spaxi wrote:
Don't start another drama here, you bloody drama queens. Chribba is here to be a 3rd party, not to change deals; if he were to give the isk back to IWI, he would lose all of his credibility. Jesus, people, get out of your smart pants and stop making the community ****, you're just sad.


This is also in response to Dark Flare as your replies were basically the same;

No, I don't think Chribba should have just given the ISK back to I Want Isk because he thought it was the right thing to do, I just don't think he should have touched the money at all since he knew where it came from and the circumstances around it, from what I was told.

I often hear people refer to EVE as "life" in a sense that, the way the game is designed and played, is somewhat like life due to the player and corporation run economy. And much like life, possession of stolen goods is just as illegal as stealing them. Do you know what happens when a politician knowingly and willingly accepts campaign contributions from criminals? They don't get elected, because our trust is in the politician, not the criminal, and we set different standards for the two.

Obviously this isn't life and for the most part, nobody really cares, especially when it's someone as notable as Chribba involved -- but I feel the exact opposite for that reason. Chribba and I Want Isk are two of the biggest corporate entities in EVE and therefor require different standards than everybody else.

But, to be fair, Chribba did say he would return the ISK if Nash agreed to do so which is a step in the right direction. Although I do think he should have said that in his first post when he acknowledged receiving the money, not after he was called out for shady actions.


I guess my question is now, will Nash do the right thing here?


Everyone has scammed isk in their eve If Chribba didn't want to take it Nash could just send 100b of his own isk and keep the iwantisk money. Makes no difference.

Kings of Lowsec
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-01-08 20:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: AMGSiR
What you [Eric] said to my reply was basically the gist of it.

I hope everything gets resolved eventually as I really dislike all of the drama. I play games to get away from it, not be involved with it lol. I just came in this thread because of the ISK that was basically stolen from I Want Isk, and 'held' by someone who's supposed to be the most reputable guy in EVE.

I know I Want Isk doesn't care about the 100bil, they give away a hell of a lot more than that every month in x-games and other events, not to mention financially supporting other hosts events. Hell, I Want Isk is STILL offering to give out the sponsored isk to the EVE_NT participants this year, as he doesn't want the community to be punished for something the host did wrong. He is just going to use his own bankers who are attending the event to do it, as he knows he can trust them.

Chribba already offered to return the ISK to I Want Isk if Nash agree, so I guess the ball is in Nash's court now. Is he going to do the right thing, or is he going to let himself, as well as Chribba take heat for his 'pride'-driven decision?
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-01-08 20:24:46 UTC
Dark Flare wrote:


Everyone has scammed isk in their eve If Chribba didn't want to take it Nash could just send 100b of his own isk and keep the iwantisk money. Makes no difference.


Speak for yourself. Some of us don't find fun in stealing other peoples hard earned isk. And there is a difference, Nash himself said on the stream he knew it wasn't his ISK to keep, and that it wouldn't be right to give the isk out at EVE_NT anymore, but he still felt it was right to give it to Chribba instead of the person who it belonged to. It's not the isk that's the problem, it's the principal.

As I said in my previous post, Chribba offered to return it if Nash agreed, so let's see if he's willing to put his pride aside and do the right thing now.
Dark Flare
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2015-01-08 22:55:27 UTC
AMGSiR wrote:
Dark Flare wrote:


Everyone has scammed isk in their eve If Chribba didn't want to take it Nash could just send 100b of his own isk and keep the iwantisk money. Makes no difference.


Speak for yourself. Some of us don't find fun in stealing other peoples hard earned isk. And there is a difference, Nash himself said on the stream he knew it wasn't his ISK to keep, and that it wouldn't be right to give the isk out at EVE_NT anymore, but he still felt it was right to give it to Chribba instead of the person who it belonged to. It's not the isk that's the problem, it's the principal.

As I said in my previous post, Chribba offered to return it if Nash agreed, so let's see if he's willing to put his pride aside and do the right thing now.


Phone post, dropped the word wallet after "eve".

Your wallet has isk that at some point was scammed in it.

Kings of Lowsec
AMGSiR
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-01-08 23:02:54 UTC
Ahh, fair enough. Just as everyone who has ever had a dollar bill in their pocket has, at some point, also had "drug money" in their pocket too, as upwards of 92% of all bills circulated in the US have traces of drugs on them.

But there's still a difference here.

Knowingly accepting drug money from a dealer isn't the same as having a dollar bill in your pocket that literally has traces of drugs on it due to circulation. Knowingly accepting drug money is illegal. Obviously it's a silly comparison since EVE is just a game, but the analogy remains true none the less. The people involved here knew exactly what they were doing and should not be treated as innocent bystanders.