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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improving the Fitting Experience

First post First post
Author
Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#201 - 2015-01-06 22:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Cordell
copy/paste from my earlier absolutely unanswered topic:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4894333#post4894333

dunno if this should be considered a bug, or its just a missing feature.

I don't know about you guys, but changing fits on my T3 is a pain...everytime I hit fit in the browse window, it strips off the ship and then starts screaming about insufficient module slots. every module I want to swap including the subsystems is in the main hangar folder in the station, but still no go. means I have to manually swap out all the mods I need, which makes the autofitting button effectively useless :)
this is one thing I'd improve, otherwise it looks right for me now, and the ideas about color coding and making it look more like EFT in terms of deactivable modules and stats changing accordingly are very much fine too.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2015-01-06 22:45:07 UTC
Would like to see adjustability in the window and possibly a lighter version that doesn't show the image of the ship. A list of slots similar to viewing shared fits sort of thing. Also having better access to cargo/drone bay by just clicking and dragging rather than opening another window for it.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#203 - 2015-01-07 00:12:08 UTC
Also fitting related.

Let us group more modules. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 2x sensor boosters. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 4x smartbombs. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 6x energy neutralizers. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 2x tracking computers. etc. etc.




Rock Brackenshield
Wormhole's Watch
#204 - 2015-01-07 00:19:54 UTC
Yes, this I like, especially simulating hardener/overheat/etc, that would help a lot. Also choosing which drone is being used for the 'drone dps' bit of the UI would be great as well, as I never know whether or not my lights/meds/sentries are being used to calculate it.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#205 - 2015-01-07 01:13:10 UTC
CCP Sharq wrote:
We have been looking into features like:

  • Allowing pilots to try in the fitting window modules and rigs they own or don't, to see what effect they have before committing. Try before you buy
  • Simulating active and overload states of modules, docked or in space. No need to leave the station to see what your hardeners can do.
  • More accurate and rich information on attributes in the fitting window.

These are excellent. Forgot to comment on that. This crowdsourcing of ideas from the player base is one of the most hope-inducing trends I've seen in EVE ever.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#206 - 2015-01-07 03:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Jack Tronic wrote:
Also fitting related.

Let us group more modules. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 2x sensor boosters. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 4x smartbombs. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 6x energy neutralizers. There's zero reason why I wouldn't want to group 2x tracking computers. etc. etc.





While I'd strongly agree with more grouping options. I'd not go so far as to say there is NO reason to 'not' group quite a few modules of the types you've listed (and other energy warfare and ewar things). Attacking multiple targets is often a great use of split ewar modules just as a quick example. So while having the option to group them would be nice there are uses for them un-grouped. (And if I've missed your point in some manner apologies).

I'm right behind you

Luscius Uta
#207 - 2015-01-07 08:56:17 UTC
Dex Cordell wrote:
copy/paste from my earlier absolutely unanswered topic:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4894333#post4894333

dunno if this should be considered a bug, or its just a missing feature.

I don't know about you guys, but changing fits on my T3 is a pain...everytime I hit fit in the browse window, it strips off the ship and then starts screaming about insufficient module slots. every module I want to swap including the subsystems is in the main hangar folder in the station, but still no go. means I have to manually swap out all the mods I need, which makes the autofitting button effectively useless :)
this is one thing I'd improve, otherwise it looks right for me now, and the ideas about color coding and making it look more like EFT in terms of deactivable modules and stats changing accordingly are very much fine too.



^^ This, I'm surprised that nobody mentioned how it's impossible to use the fitting screen to fit a strategic cruiser, since it presumably doesn't fit subsystems first and leaves you without slots, CPU and powergrid and throws a bunch of dialogs right in your face.

My second wish is to apply skills bonuses when hovering over modules in your inventory with the fitting screen open. This is most commonly seen with Shield Extenders, since Shield Upgrades skill lowers their powergrid use considerably but ingame fitting screen doesn't consider that and might tell you that you don't have enough powergid to fit such a module, even though you actually can fit (and online) it.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#208 - 2015-01-07 09:06:35 UTC
I haven't read the whole thread, but I do want to throw in a few ideas (so sorry in advance if they've already been said)

- Cross compatability with the market, dragging and dropping ships, rigs and modules into slots, to allow 'test fitting' before buying.

- Being able to 'fit from market', using a reverse of the new selling window to buy in all the bits for a fitting.

- Being able to see the effects of active modules when they are on, as well as if they are off.



Lastly, a question for the devs; Is it possible to create a 'mass fitting' system? (Also a mass naming system would be handy too.)
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#209 - 2015-01-07 10:39:38 UTC
CCP Sharq wrote:
Happy new year pilots!

CCP karkur and I, under adult supervision from CCP Tuxford have been experimenting with improving the EVE fitting experience.

The fitting window hasn't gotten much love since Apocrypha and we really want to address that and make it a powerful and fun tool, move it a bit closer to 3rd party programs like EFT and Pyfa.

We have been looking into features like:

  • Allowing pilots to try in the fitting window modules and rigs they own or don't, to see what effect they have before committing. Try before you buy
  • Simulating active and overload states of modules, docked or in space. No need to leave the station to see what your hardeners can do.
  • More accurate and rich information on attributes in the fitting window.


There are a ton of ideas floating around that could be added to the list, but what would you be interested in seeing that would improve your fitting experience?

Fly safe!

EDIT: These are just things we are looking into doing, non of this has been planned for any release...



How about you remove the fitting window entirely and integrate it into the Hangar ?
I mean seriously we have this window which shows a spinning model of the ship while in the background there's a spinning model of the ship. Such a waste to have the Hangar just for that.

Allow the fitting to be done directly on the 3D model in the Hangar and have the slots, bays etc. info superimposed on the Hangar image.

Also please add the info regarding overall scan strength and scan speed if possible.

Fornicate The Constabulary !

Hakkon Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2015-01-07 10:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakkon Oskold
I usualy fit ships for a living in Eve
and here is a few key points that would have made my life more easy.


1# Mods in cargo hold, allow me to save a fitting with mods in cargo hold.
Example we have two fittings with a cruiser one with HAM:s and one with RML i would like to put the RML:s in the cargo hold with its ammo. allowing me to have a fitting saved with the correct cargohold (even if its not a charge would be GREAT)

2# Allowing me to have a fitting with rigs but a check box that don't put the rigs on the ship.
- allowing me to put the rigs in the carghold by (1) is better ofc.

3# a checkbox that disables the warning of not having enough PG or CPU to online all modules.
- this is very tidious when your fitting 40+ ships that have pg or cpu rigs and i put rigs in cargohold.


Now from a fleet flying standpoint.

4# Wardrobe refittings on the fly that "Ignore" the rigs

5# allow more Corp fittings, we are often at / around max.

6# Alliance fittings? why not with the unification of alliances having the alliance be able to save correct fittings would be a time saver for all alliances. Allowing it according to (1) store wildcard mods in cargohold would make the logistic hell even easier.


7# Stuff that enhance the usablility of the fitting tool.
a# allowing you to access all items in game in the tool from a list allowing you to try out a fit before you buy it.
b# allowing the tool to sugest how to deal with pg/cpu issues (get a rig, +3% implant etc)
c# a buy this fit on market button. that create a "buy list" that you can use in the nearest market hub.


edit: i don't put rigs on ships on a risk aware scale and not losing isk on removing rigs when a doctrine change occure.
thr44w3y Shimaya
chilling and relaxing
#211 - 2015-01-07 10:56:23 UTC
Dunno if others have said it if they have this is a +1 to theirs.

I would like the ability to rearrange my hud, group my guns, and move my modules to certain shortcut slots before undocking (would be very useful if being camped in a war).
Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#212 - 2015-01-07 12:04:15 UTC
Rixx Javix wrote:

Even better.

Then I will make the following suggestion. Before implementing any "tweaks" to the current fitting window, perhaps a better next step would be to step back and take a fresh look at the entire concept of a "fitting window".

As others have noted, the current window design is essentially a revised and revised version of the original pop-up window that has been made to look better and better over the last decade. Perhaps we should be asking, do we even need a pop-up window anymore? Do we need a window whose largest section is a 3d version of the ship most likely already behind it? Perhaps the same functionality (and more) could be obtained by UI elements that hover over the ship already in our hangar? Instead of a pop-up window, perhaps we can design something more elegant and incorporated into the design of the hangar, around the ship already floating there.

I for one would much rather see a more integrated solution, more tastefully designed, than just more features loaded into another revision of the fitting window.

Just a thought since it seems we have the time.



I think this is the right way thing should be done.
A new fitting service should be designed instead of an upgrade of the current one.
The suggestion of Rixx is very well posted.
I know that CCP karkur already stated that a new revised code is not in the scope of that work, but I think that the current one are very outdate, and should be replaced by a news one, with the news functionality we want.
Thank you

Castelo
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#213 - 2015-01-07 12:30:58 UTC
If recent history is anything to go by, I really would not bother.

It will no doubt end up bugged and half-finished at which point you will move on to the next “release”, leaving all the remaining issues unaddressed and never to be looked at again. At which point everyone will go back to using EFT.

It happened in Pheobe. It happened in Rhea. It will happen every time until the pressure of a 6-week release cycle is taken away.


Either increase the time between releases to allow all the bugs to be worked out, or spend one release every few months fixing them all.

If this continues, EVE will become more and more bugged, with a list of defects getting longer and longer. Of course, this assumes that you actually have a defect list and don’t just throw it in the bin at the end of a release (which looks more and more likely, to be honest).

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.

Slapu Jelgeir
The World Is Yours
#214 - 2015-01-07 14:56:57 UTC
Yes i want it now !! in Proteus pls Big smile
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#215 - 2015-01-07 15:19:20 UTC
Rixx Javix wrote:
As usual I can't leave well enough alone and decided to quickly mock-up what I was talking about in the previous post. Again, this was done quickly and essentially used what is already available with some improvements taken from suggestions in this thread.

Fitting Window UI Concept

UPDATED to make the image larger and clean up a few things.


The biggest win of this design is that it reinforces the HUD layout. It's also clean and pretty, but the reference back to the UI that you use to fly the ship is pure win.

However, I'm not sure if it would be as intuitive for people like me who put all frequently activated mods on the top row, because modifier keys are annoying and/or bound to voice activation.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#216 - 2015-01-07 15:25:19 UTC
Is this going to be easy for you to support? As in will be bug fixed and updated regularly or is it going to be like the jukebox or the web browser or more like teams that last only a release or 2 before it is removed/reverted back to the basic fitting.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#217 - 2015-01-07 15:26:23 UTC
Excellent news!

The 'try before you buy' fitting option would be my number one choice to have in the in-game client. I don't generally use third party programs at all so it would be very good to have that provided by CCP. Big smileBig smileBig smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Maurice Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2015-01-07 16:31:09 UTC
In addition to what people already mentioned multiple times, there are two things that I'd really like to see:


  1. Allow the "Fit to active Ship" pick modules from Station Containers. At the moment, all modules need to be in your main hangar which quickly gets cluttered with tons of modules. Ideally, I'd like to have several containers in my hangar, each containing the fittings for one particular ship.

  2. An option to downgrade / change meta if the module from a saved fitting is neither available in the hangar nor at the current station's market, but you have a different meta version of it. This is very important for lo-sec residents, where you can't always get the meta versions that you want. To make it really perfect, allow saving multiple alternate versions as a single saved fitting and let the fitting tool choose by the modules that you currently have available.


Some other, more cosmetic things:


  1. Assemble, Board, Fit, Insure, Load & Group Guns - as a single command.
  2. Right-click a stack of ships - for instance 20 Tristans - and "Fit all".
  3. When you click on a fit that's been linked somewhere, you'll see these red crosses when you don't have the skills for some module - but there's no red cross if you don't have the skills for the hull itself, you need to click "info" for that.
  4. Total training time for all the missing skills - ideally with an "add these to my skill queue" option. This will be mostly useful for newer players.
  5. How long can I overheat this module before it burns out?
  6. Better capacity calculations: how long will my capacitor last without this module?
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#219 - 2015-01-07 17:01:22 UTC
Build EFT into the game that allows players to theory craft without using external tools.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#220 - 2015-01-07 17:03:39 UTC
Ok,

Since you're wanting to have the option to build a fit without actually buying the modules, I have a few things to add to that.



  • Show the total fitting costs based on nearest market values

  • Perhaps individual modules prices based on nearest market values

  • An option to buy and fit load out from the fitting panel, without having to go through and individually purchase each item separately

  • When buying a bulk fit, and some items are not available in your current station, a window comes up saying "these items are not available in your current station (show a list of items with locations which are highlighted red if they're not in high sec)." At the bottom it will say "Would like like to purchase these items anyway? (You will be required to pick them up.)"