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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

First post First post First post
Author
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2015-01-06 18:28:54 UTC
It might not be possible mind. The poster a couple up is right about code.
Mario Putzo
#242 - 2015-01-06 18:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Or you just make Abandon/Scoop/Return to drone bay an overriding command that functions like "reloading" on other weapons platforms. Once you click abandon/scoop/return to drone bay you are locked out of issuing a command to your drones for 20 seconds.

*Return and Orbit will not start this timer.

Poof now you only have 1 timer to track, and it applied to all drones within that ship. No more spooky lag than reloading turrets cause.

and probably not that much to code...**** they managed to make 3 different "jump to beacon options" give everyone 2 timers im sure they can take 3 inputs and generate one timer.

Maybe they can't, but they should.

Here is even a message you can display

"The Drone Bay will be cleared in approximately 20 seconds"

basically your idea is bad because you have not thought it through and make common errors made by people who don't know anything about what they're talking about

specifically, you clearly know nothing about coding, so you do not understand what makes problems potentially difficult. you are the walking example of the dunning-kruger effect: you do not know enough to know how little you know. your change is basically "what if we entirely rewrite fundamental assumptions about how this system works, that will be easy" you don't know the code, you don't know how it interfaces with other code, you don't know what testing and debugging even are, basically you're just sort of babbling incoherently. the core nugget from your post is that you don't have any idea what you're talking about and can be safely ignored

as for the mechanical merit: it's poorly thought out because you don't appear to realize that ships changing drone types is currently allowed and not-exploititive behavior and you are heavily nerfing that without any apparent knowledge you're doing so

now just because there are side effects doesn't make something bad - but you have to explain that you're aware of them and ok with them. here, ccp's solution admits the side effects and why they're ok with them (because death to supers they're overpowered ****). you didn't even realize your idea had a side effect

but really it's that you don't understand anything about what computer code is and probably think you just speak to a computer and it writes code that does what you told it to do and that's the fundamental issue here, so we're not likely to make much progress


Thats cute, but its not my problem if CCPs spaghetti code makes it hard for them to implement a new timer, that is CCP's problem and I can still expect them to actually fix what they claim they want to fix. Perhaps if they didn't spend the last 5 years kicking cans down the road they would have been able to streamline their code a bit more so they could overhaul aspects of the game they believe necessary to change. Keep in mind that this change is not only about DPS, but also avoiding server load. That server load is just as easily spiked with subcap drone usage as it it is with Capital drone usage. HED-GP?

In regards to limiting drone swapping. Whats wrong with that? I have to wait out a timer when I switch ammo in 3/4 other weapon types. Be it for damage type changing or range type changing. So I don't get the opposition to what amounts to a reload timer on drones.

**** it will probably smack drone doctrines in the head a bit which is only good for the game as whole anyway.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#243 - 2015-01-06 18:37:13 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I wonder how easy it might be to have damage drones fire at the END of the cycle...?

Solved. Instantly.

this is the sort of intelligent thinking that creates actually useful solutions

question would be if you'd break ewar drones (really ecm drones, the rest might as well not exist) which is sort of a code issue



How about just making fighter/fighter-bomber small alpha high ROF for the same dps? Gaming a cycle by reseting it only works if that cycle is long enough to outlast the overhead of re-deploying. If it fires every 4 server ticks, you will have to be baller as **** to scoop/re-deploy fast enough after a cycle to gain some.

Is there a reason why they were built on the "high" alpha low ROF model to begin with? Server load of all those shots?
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#244 - 2015-01-06 18:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselFinance
Mario Putzo wrote:

Thats cute, but its not my problem if CCPs spaghetti code makes it hard for them to implement a new timer, that is CCP's problem and I can still expect them to actually fix what they claim they want to fix.

nobody cares what you expect, think, demand, whatever, especially since you don't have enough knowledge to have an informed opinion on if it was poorly coded in the first place - it could have been excellently coded but will still be comparatively expensive to change

what actually matters is the reality, and the reality is almost certainly that fixing the engine to block this isn't worth it from a code perspective but this mechanics change is

if you want to go send nastygrams to whoever coded the engine go do that but nobody will care
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#245 - 2015-01-06 18:48:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I wonder how easy it might be to have damage drones fire at the END of the cycle...?

Solved. Instantly.

this is the sort of intelligent thinking that creates actually useful solutions

question would be if you'd break ewar drones (really ecm drones, the rest might as well not exist) which is sort of a code issue



How about just making fighter/fighter-bomber small alpha high ROF for the same dps? Gaming a cycle by reseting it only works if that cycle is long enough to outlast the overhead of re-deploying. If it fires every 4 server ticks, you will have to be baller as **** to scoop/re-deploy fast enough after a cycle to gain some.

Is there a reason why they were built on the "high" alpha low ROF model to begin with? Server load of all those shots?


I think so - isn't that also why drone damage is more alpha and not RoF like other damage mods? I can't recall exactly.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#246 - 2015-01-06 18:52:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Is there a reason why they were built on the "high" alpha low ROF model to begin with? Server load of all those shots?

I believe originally fighter-bombers actually launched missiles, so high alpha/low ROF did indeed minimize server load (and then they came to their senses and eliminated the actual missiles so they acted like guns instead of creating actual missile objects)
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#247 - 2015-01-06 18:59:28 UTC
Supercap pilots who are moaning about how harsh and unforgiving life is whenever CCP pokes their near-immortal flying doomfortresses has a very "Atlas shrugged" feeling to it.

People up to their necks in champagne. Trying their best to make their situation seem harsh and unforgiving.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#248 - 2015-01-06 19:00:33 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Carriers are fine with sentries, Ishtars need to have sentries nerfed :)

+1 on the changes.


this, This, THIS!

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#249 - 2015-01-06 19:01:13 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Supercap pilots who are moaning about how harsh and unforgiving life is whenever CCP pokes their near-immortal flying doomfortresses has a very "Atlas shrugged" feeling to it.

hopefully they all go galt and remove themselves from the game

that'll show ccp
der Sardaukar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2015-01-06 19:13:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Hope you've all had a great holiday season. Most of us are back at the office now, and we're putting the final preparations in place for the Proteus release next week.

One of the tweaks we are making in Proteus is to the scan resolution of Fighters and Fighter Bombers, both of which are being reduced quite significantly.

The primary goal of this change is to ensure that rapidly scooping and relaunching fighters and fighter bombers never gives a dps advantage. This practice has not been widespread thus far, but any possible advantage gained this way would both provide imbalanced DPS and cause significant server load so we want to nip it in the bud.

The changes will also have the effect of delaying the initial alpha strike of fighters and fighter bombers, especially against subcaps. Although it is not the primary purpose of the change we are not displeased by this effect, and we do not believe that it will make fighters or fighter bombers underpowered.

I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.

The new numbers are:
Type - Old Scan Res – New Scan Res
Dragonfly - 200 - 100
Einherji - 350 - 175
Firbolg - 250 - 125
Templar - 300 - 150
Cyclops – 250 - 27
Malleus - 300 - 29
Mantis - 200 - 25
Shadow – 225 - 30
Tyrfing - 350 - 31

Thanks everyone, and happy New Year!


In case of the whining ratting carrier alliances from page 3 its a good news. But the nerv is not enough. When supercarriers can only launch fighter + fighterbomber, so there should be a nerv on the normal carriers, too. They should only able to launch fighter and heavy drones (and maybe sentries as a part of heavy drones). Also it would be a good idea like former here described, an reload/relaunch timer for fighter and drones.
There are many more things to do with drones. As an example why have they no ammo consumption and reload timer?
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#251 - 2015-01-06 19:18:23 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Supercap pilots who are moaning about how harsh and unforgiving life is whenever CCP pokes their near-immortal flying doomfortresses has a very "Atlas shrugged" feeling to it.

hopefully they all go galt and remove themselves from the game

that'll show ccp


CCP could nerf supers as much as they like and people will still fly them as long as they can convince each other that it's "the end game"

That supers are Eves equivalent of level 100 in full purples, level 10 prestige, Level 30 on every champion. Eve's equivalent of having literally caught all of the pokémon.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#252 - 2015-01-06 19:24:13 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Thats cute, but its not my problem if CCPs spaghetti code makes it hard for them to implement a new timer, that is CCP's problem and I can still expect them to actually fix what they claim they want to fix. Perhaps if they didn't spend the last 5 years kicking cans down the road they would have been able to streamline their code a bit more so they could overhaul aspects of the game they believe necessary to change. Keep in mind that this change is not only about DPS, but also avoiding server load. That server load is just as easily spiked with subcap drone usage as it it is with Capital drone usage. HED-GP?

I too would enjoy living in this fantasy world where "bad code" is the only thing preventing computers from doing everything you want them to.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#253 - 2015-01-06 19:26:26 UTC
if we pump the code full of preservatives and put it in the freezer will that keep it from going bad
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2015-01-06 19:27:16 UTC
The point is that this is a made up problem by people who hate supers and feel that their way of playing is the right way. If you can't form a one thousand man fleet then you are irrelevant to the game and you should have no recourse in fighting that one thousand man fleet.

Oh, and your 30billion isk ship should rightly be ineffective against a majority of ship types in the game. It makes perfect sense!
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#255 - 2015-01-06 19:30:45 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.

people keep saying this and not really 'getting' it

ccp has a limited number of people who are good enough at the engine code to tinker with it in the ways completely fixing this would require

in addition, we have no idea of the amount of work this would require and it's probably relatively considerable

so we have the question, what is a better result: spend a lot of valuble engine coding time fixing a rare bug, or making it go away with mechanics changes (which can be done by non-programmers)

this obviously took a short amount of time to figure out and implement and works just fine in fixing the bug in the most egregious situations and does so without draining dev time from more pressing priorities, a clear win


A clear win for whom though? According to whose agenda?
A clear win for CCP and their dwindling stock of serious programmers? If they didn't scroooo up things to begin with...

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

If CCP wants to get rid of capitals, they should tell us so we can prepare, and make sure that we are properly reimbursed for the skill points and isk invested. Take away my super? Sure, as long as I get a boatload of deadspace fitted paladins, nightmares, redeemers and bhaalgorns in return, I'm game. Oh, and that's A and X type fitted deadspace, not scrubby c types or faction.

Fitting snobbishness ensues.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#256 - 2015-01-06 19:31:46 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
The point is that this is a made up problem by people who hate supers and feel that their way of playing is the right way. If you can't form a one thousand man fleet then you are irrelevant to the game and you should have no recourse in fighting that one thousand man fleet.

Oh, and your 30billion isk ship should rightly be ineffective against a majority of ship types in the game. It makes perfect sense!

please tell me your feelings about aoe doomsdays
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2015-01-06 19:33:08 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Tykonderoga wrote:
The point is that this is a made up problem by people who hate supers and feel that their way of playing is the right way. If you can't form a one thousand man fleet then you are irrelevant to the game and you should have no recourse in fighting that one thousand man fleet.

Oh, and your 30billion isk ship should rightly be ineffective against a majority of ship types in the game. It makes perfect sense!

please tell me your feelings about aoe doomsdays



Titans have been obnoxiously nerfed as well and collect more dust than your avatar's muff.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#258 - 2015-01-06 19:33:10 UTC
Panther X wrote:
If CCP wants to get rid of capitals, they should tell us so we can prepare, and make sure that we are properly reimbursed for the skill points and isk invested. Take away my super? Sure, as long as I get a boatload of deadspace fitted paladins, nightmares, redeemers and bhaalgorns in return, I'm game. Oh, and that's A and X type fitted deadspace, not scrubby c types or faction.

L
M
B
O
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#259 - 2015-01-06 19:33:44 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
The point is that this is a made up problem by people who hate supers and feel that their way of playing is the right way. If you can't form a one thousand man fleet then you are irrelevant to the game and you should have no recourse in fighting that one thousand man fleet.

Oh, and your 30billion isk ship should rightly be ineffective against a majority of ship types in the game. It makes perfect sense!


there are lots of ways to beat a 1000 man fleet, you're just test-level at all of them
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#260 - 2015-01-06 19:35:35 UTC
going to need a machete to blaze my way through this overgrown jungle of entitlement