Science & Industry

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/lighting-the-invention-bulb/
"Meta Item removal: Meta Item consumption to affect success chance is messy. It only affects modules, not ships and has a formula that is full of exceptions. Those will not be reimbursed as they can be used independently from Invention.

Introduction of Teams to replace Meta Items: we are going to extend the role of Teams to Invention, just like it works right now for other industry activities."

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=389425&find=unread
"Given this, we believe the right thing for EVE and it’s players is to remove the Teams feature from the game over the next few months"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=395392&find=unread
So with the removal of Meta Item consumption to affect success chance. And now the removal of of Teams to replace Meta Items.
And the removal of meta altogether. How has T2 production and invention not been made harder?

And did T2 BPOs ever get the big Nerf that was promised?
http://www.evemanufacturing.co.uk/invention-vs-t2-bpos/

I haven't built anything since Crius. I still run my fingers over those spreadsheets occasionally, but the margins I see on most things make it not worth my time to bother. It seems "the minerals I mine are free" is the only way to make a good solid profit building things in Eve these days. If you want to run your operation as a business, you're better off doing it for love, not margin.

T2 production of final products is generally not too profitable because most builders also build their own t2 components and/or have reaction towers and vertically integrate.

If you are inventing, buying t2 components, and building the t2 final item from those components, you are probably not making very much unless you're doing it at a POS.

The main function of t2 production now is a method to offload bulk reaction outputs.

T2 is not a guaranteed loss. However, if you use a simple model of buying parts at Jita, building stuff, and selling in Jita, there margins won't be any better than T1, and worse in a lot of cases, especially ships. T2 BPOs still exist and got nerfed a bit as invention got a bit of a buff, but they still dominate products where they are available and are responsible for low margins in a number of cases.

Since the margins are equal to or worse than T1 and take more work, why build it? Getting cheap sources of goo and making the construction components and the T1 modules can make the margins considerably good, but only in some cases. So you do a ton more work for a tiny bit of an increase. T2 is still worth making in some cases but the value in it is not margins in most cases but sales volume. There really is no reason to sell it in Jita because the margins will be low. Sales volume in Jita will be high for anything you make. So make T1 for Jita. However, since a lot of T2 modules are used more than T1 you can make T2 to sell in local hubs and it will sell better than T1. Try making Ballistic Control System Is and selling them in Rens. You'll never sell any and those that sell will be dirt cheap. Not worth the time. But Ballistic Control System IIs will sell there, and your margins will be higher than selling at jita.

Yeah T2 is worth making but it needs to be integrated into a trading and market scene. Those that say it's not worth doing have built a camp in the forge and haul to Jita.

I'm making hundreds of millions per day with... well, something
But yeah, the T2 market is quite a mess, especially drones and modules. Haven't found much worth building since Crius...

at least it's easily fixable

build and invention times need to be raised across the board, so people have a harder time flooding the market without even trying to

It takes less than 3 days to cap out advanced component BPO's they cost 5 mill each, 9 in total per nation.

If you buy 2 plate, one of the rest it's 50 Mill X 4 = 200 mill and you will be M.E. capped in less than 2 weeks. We can pretend it's a big secret but we all know, deep down that everyone and their dog is now or soon will be T2 capable and will make their own on demand. The only required skill is Metallurgy 5 and every industrial had that for the now defunked crap metal processing skill. I have it multiple times, completed my BPO set in under a week.

Short version, T2 production for market purpose is **** up. I can't really say if it's bad or good for EVE that everyone can stockpile T2 everything now but from a build for profit aspect, it's extinction. Given enough time it won't even be about price, the asset volumes of stuff are going to murder demand. You won't be able to give it away.

Thin, yes. But some were still profitable. The problem is the huge decrease in production time of modules and ammo, resulting in a much larger supply, while the demand has not increased significantly. Drones, rigs and ships were not affected by this, their production time has not changed that drastically.

Yes, it looks that way As long as we don't end up in a doom loop, all is well.
I mean, CCP did a good job with the UI, you have to give them credits for that. But there was no need to change the production times the way they did. Hopefully they will take another look at that soon.

I had an idea that I posted in the features and ideas section about limiting the number of jobs you could have at a station based on the system cost index. Basically bringing back the "slots" idea but on a personal rather than general level.

The idea is that T2 invention in particular has become so easy at an npc station that there is little need to do it anywhere else and it creates a huge flood of T2 stuff. If you were limited by the activity in the system by more than just cost, which was really not a huge factor on modules anyway, then it might introduce a slowdown effect so the market would have time to absorb the production.

You would not be lock out from doing things. You would always be able to have at least one job in a system (maybe two) even in Jita.

POS's, outposts and other sov owned stations would not be limited. Only npc ones. This would push people back to using POS's for industry.

The old slots system acted as a brake on the industry system due to it being very hard to find any invention slots in high sec. The other was invention times. I don't have any experience on that since I did not do any invention pre-crius. I love that you are not locked out from invention by this anymore but the free-for-all has really messed things up.