Player Features and Ideas Discussion

TLDR buff ice in null or nerf ice in highsec

2-3 months ago I moved my mining fleet out to renter space, getting my hands on the at the time lucrative Amarrian ice. I had expected it to be barely worth it except that I was being bothered so badly in highsec it became impossible to mine, so I had to try something. After reading the null whiners cry about how highsec is so amazing and nullsec isnt worth it I expected the overhead costs, logistics and neutrals to make it so the isk/hr was less than in highsec (when I wasnt being bothered). Well there was partial truth to it.

Talking ore, it's not even a comparison. Ore mining in nullsec decimates ore mining in highsec. Even with the logistics costs, inabiltiy to use a freighter much of the time, and losing ships to neutrals, you can easily pump out twice the profits in nullsec. This compounds when you run a large fleet, there just isnt enough ore in highsec belts and you waste half your cycles running on empty asteriods.

Talking ice, it's the opposite. The nullsec variation of ice gives you a measly 15%-20% extra materials refined. the logistics costs, lost ships, time wasted not using a freighter when neuts are around not only erase that profit but make it less lucrative. Unlike ore, ice isn't tough to mine in highsec either. You dont waste cycles and there isnt a lack of it as long as you don't mine it 4 jumps from a tradehub.

Ice needs to have be taken a hard look at. The latest change was to what, counteract botters? **** botters. It needs to be balanced to counteract the fact that its more logical to mine it in highsec.
Now you can nerf it in highsec in different ways but reduction in quantity just compounds the problems the large scale fleets have imposed. I would look at the refining yields instead. Nullsec ice should not be worth 15%-20% more. It should be worth at least 50% more.

High sec ice is disappearing fast. Won't be long before people start filling up the out of the way ice belts because all the main traffic belts are gone. And one day, all of a sudden, highsec ice will disappear completely. Ice miners everywhere will have failed to see it coming and won't know what to do.

I don't think Ice really needs to be changed at this point- what needs to be changed is the consumption of isotopes. The recent nerfs to jump bridges, jump drives, and even POS demand in high sec have led to ice products slumping. The "high end" ice in null is very poor compared to the isotope bearing ice. Sounds similar to high end ores, right?

Income in null anomalies is in fact better than anywhere in high sec. That said, the increased income is solely because of rock size and being able to cycle belts- it is not because of ore composition. In fact, arkonor continues to suck in value, and it is one of the largest rocks in the null anoms (huh, interesting).

The native ore and ice prices will increase a little after the ISBoxer nerf, but the prices will not jump a high amount. Multibox mining will still be a thing, and it still will not be that hard to multibox upwards of 20 accounts manually. I know, because I tested it out in retrievers on my mining (now inv/prod) dudes. It's a little more clicking, but really not much different than using broadcasting.

CCP does need to make a change some time in February. Give the ISBoxer change a chance to settle in a little bit, then revise the way null ice and ore is supplied. If the supply continues as-is, the mega/zyd markets will be garbage for year(s).

No to moving all ice to nul, the high sec pos folks need a source they can have easy access to.

Yes to changing the makeup of the ice to allow for better yields in low/nul.

I like this idea.

Honestly though, I'd like any idea that made all the hi-sec miners think about venturing to null. +1

Which they would never do. I'm with Max on this, keep the spread of stuff throughout regions to promote the movement of goods around space.

Market is saturated with the "valuable" ores from null, and while plexes in null may indeed be incredible, its only in the best truesec where its really worth it. The ores are in anoms and there is never any action in asteroid belts. Give null some mining love, All ice in null, and in belts. "im tackled in the belt" is something i want to laugh at again.

Moon goo is not the income for the grunts, and the good anoms are first come first serve, the mining isn't worth is unless you're doing production yourself and PI is a minigame with low risk. Lets have some impetus, and a reason for daring mining missions, and give the masses and NPE some excitement while shooting big, nonviolent, stationary things for profit, now with entertainment!

Usually the presumption is that if it is in Null Sec: the reward should be greater to compensate for the risk involved. It of course does not mean that the person who treats Null Sec like it is as safe as High Sec will come out ahead.

That said: Ice should not be removed from High Sec but should be more randomly distributed than it currently is. It should be treated more like an scanable signature in terms of how it spawns than being fixed to certain systems as it currently is fixed - thus forcing mining fleets to move with greater frequency from their home system.

I hope this never happens as it will be the death of 2 major game play styles in this game. Once all ore, ice and moon goo are moved to low sec that area of space will rapidly be dominated by the large nul blocks and only the brave and lucky few will be able to go there and do anything.
Wondering what it would do to FW?
It would destroy the low sec game play as we know it.
I can not even begin to imagine what it would do to the largest player block in the game, those that call high sec home.