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Warp Disruption Rebalance

Author
Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
#1 - 2014-12-29 05:44:35 UTC
EWAR modules have a chance of success associated to them at the start of each cycle. You have a CHANCE to jam somebody for that one cycle.

Warp Disruption on the other hand is not chancy. If you are in range and you activate it, there is no chance of them warping off unless they already are stronger than that.

I suggest this should be based on chance. A cycle timer for the disruptors and scramblers, and similar modules. You could potentially fail to jam, at which time they will have to align their ship, and activate and get to warp before you as an attacker can re-establish that disruption.

This means not every ship could be a tackler. It would take dedicated ships to do it reliably as they would need multiple disruptors, overlaping, and plenty of cap and CPU for them.

Opinions?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-12-29 05:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
No EWAR mod besides ECM is chance-based unless you're in falloff, and to be honest, I don't feel EVE needs more RNG stuff than it already has.

Also, as I've said in the similar thread already, warp disruption in EVE is what "in combat" flag in other games is, just more involved. I definitely don't see how it's a good idea to demand every single gang with no exception to bring specialized ship just to make proper combat happen, not to mention smaller gangs and soloists who don't have manpower to spare.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-29 07:54:02 UTC
Let's do it the other way: warp core stabs increase your chance of not getting disrupted by 30% per module, stacking penalized.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2014-12-29 08:05:31 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
Guys I want to run away more, please make it easier to run away.

No.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#5 - 2014-12-29 11:26:10 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
No EWAR mod besides ECM is chance-based unless you're in falloff, and to be honest, I don't feel EVE needs more RNG stuff than it already has.

Also, as I've said in the similar thread already, warp disruption in EVE is what "in combat" flag in other games is, just more involved. I definitely don't see how it's a good idea to demand every single gang with no exception to bring specialized ship just to make proper combat happen, not to mention smaller gangs and soloists who don't have manpower to spare.


Sums it up pretty well, if you don't want to be tackled don't undock.

Not supported.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2014-12-29 12:29:07 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
EWAR modules have a chance of success associated to them at the start of each cycle. You have a CHANCE to jam somebody for that one cycle.

Warp Disruption on the other hand is not chancy. If you are in range and you activate it, there is no chance of them warping off unless they already are stronger than that.

I suggest this should be based on chance. A cycle timer for the disruptors and scramblers, and similar modules. You could potentially fail to jam, at which time they will have to align their ship, and activate and get to warp before you as an attacker can re-establish that disruption.

This means not every ship could be a tackler. It would take dedicated ships to do it reliably as they would need multiple disruptors, overlaping, and plenty of cap and CPU for them.

Opinions?


The idea of a newbie in a T1 frigate tackling a ship a thousand times more expensive than their own is pretty much a central theme of every out of game recruitment advert I've ever seen. Why do you want that entire concept removed?
Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
#7 - 2014-12-30 11:09:44 UTC
I don't want it REMOVED, I want it to be more chancy.

I like the idea of warp core stabs making it that way.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2014-12-30 11:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
EWAR and ECM are not interchangeable
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-30 12:11:07 UTC
I don't like chance-based, but it would be nice if it weren't so binary. I had the idea to make partial warp scrambling increase the ship's align time by shrinking their warp velocity margin. If your warp strength is 2x the scramble strength used against you or higher, there is no penalty. From 1x to less than 2x you can warp but with penalty.

Example: someone uses a warp scrambler on a Venture with no warp stabs:
net warp strength: 3
net jam strength: 2
minimum warp velocity: 87.5%
minimum deviation from align target: -50%

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#10 - 2014-12-30 14:21:42 UTC
How about no ... ?

Srly
DaeHan Minhyok
Logical Outcomes
#11 - 2014-12-30 15:54:10 UTC
What ab webs?

Don't think your idea is good, in eve the name of the game is hold them down, if an anemy can run away you probably wont catch them. If points were chance based there would be less pvp, less destruction, and less fun.
Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
#12 - 2014-12-30 22:24:11 UTC
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:
What ab webs?

Don't think your idea is good, in eve the name of the game is hold them down, if an anemy can run away you probably wont catch them. If points were chance based there would be less pvp, less destruction, and less fun.


You can still hold them; you would just need to work a little harder at it.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2014-12-30 22:47:30 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
I don't want it REMOVED, I want it to be more chancy.

I like the idea of warp core stabs making it that way.



And given the hate the current chance based mechanics generate, what makes you think that taking every single fight down to a simple coin toss is a good idea?
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#14 - 2014-12-30 22:53:50 UTC
What could be interesting would be to give points and scrams an actual usable falloff. It could allow people that are trying to kite for instance, the decision to potentially let their prey go, but if they open up the distance another couple km, they will take less damage from the brawler they are trying to kill. On the flip side, it could allow a brawler to shut off the kiters MWD for a portion of it's cycle since the next cycle could miss.

The only part of the design I don't like about points and scrams is how binary it is. You are either in range, or you are not. Even when you overheat, you are either in range, or you are not.

I feel the same about webs as well.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Krops Vont
#15 - 2014-12-31 00:45:36 UTC
You have so many wonderful ideas. Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

Watch this before you post any more. Stop smoking that dark matter.

--==Services==--

Propaganda/Art/Media

Wormhole Finding & Selling

o/ Play for fun

Lienzo
Amanuensis
#16 - 2014-12-31 01:21:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lienzo
I'd rather see disruptors increased to two points, scramblers increased to three points, and interdiction bubbles only be worth a single point.

It would be reasonable to have a single WCS defeat a bubble. Anchored bubbles could have two points perhaps.

The easiness of dictor bubbling has made people really lazy, to the point that many players seem to have forgotten the old-fashioned skill of getting points on people. They are also rather large, and have a big effect for a small price.

Nowadays, fast tackle is all about defeating mwd+cloak maneuvers, which is a dumb artifact resulting from CCP allowing for spawn in zones to be the primary venue for conflict between players. Tackling is an important role, and needs to be treated as such.



In a perfect world, warping or cynoing wouldn't use capacitor, but another depleteable reservoir that recharges slowly over time. Area of effect weapons or even (I wish) sub-targeting (think FreeSpace 1&2 from the late 90s) could deplete that reservoir. Big ships and industrial ships could have deeper reservoirs, and recharge faster over time. Pared down ships like interceptors are naturally interdiction immune, but might have to wait longer between warps like other frigates. This would give other fast ships more time to catch up with them. (Yes, this is aimed square at slippery petes and all those ships hanging out at 300km from the gate.)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-12-31 01:28:12 UTC
I like the idea of bubbles having a scramble strength of only one. They should also make people take longer to enter warp. Or maybe only increase time to warp. Then they're just buying time for the fleet to land points. There should be warp scramblers and disruptors with a longer range that cost a few hundred MW of powergrid so that battleships and the occasional cruiser will fit them, thereby giving ships with a slower lock time and slower max velocity a longer disrupt range.

If HIC bubbles didn't have infinite scramble strength, there might actually be a purpose for them to carry around the infini-point script even when they aren't hunting supercaps.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-12-31 06:47:20 UTC
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
EWAR modules have a chance of success associated to them at the start of each cycle. You have a CHANCE to jam somebody for that one cycle.

Warp Disruption on the other hand is not chancy. If you are in range and you activate it, there is no chance of them warping off unless they already are stronger than that.

I suggest this should be based on chance. A cycle timer for the disruptors and scramblers, and similar modules. You could potentially fail to jam, at which time they will have to align their ship, and activate and get to warp before you as an attacker can re-establish that disruption.

This means not every ship could be a tackler. It would take dedicated ships to do it reliably as they would need multiple disruptors, overlaping, and plenty of cap and CPU for them.

Opinions?


I look forward to the day they remove a lot of these 1 trick pony modules and give us the ability to target different parts of a ship. Like target the engines to slow them down. Target their warp drive to prevent them from warping. Target their weapons. Target their sensors. Stuff like that. Instead of 1 target lock and multiple modules to do different things. Have to choose what I want to shoot on the ship.

Imagine going into a 1v1 fight. What would you shoot at first on their ship? Weapons, propulsion, warp drive, sensors? Maybe that would give reason to ungroup weapons. Guns 1 and 2 fire on their sensors. Guns 3 and 4 target their engines. Guns 5, 6, 7 and 8 target their weapons.

I saw or heard a dev mention it not long ago.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2014-12-31 07:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:


I look forward to the day they remove a lot of these 1 trick pony modules and give us the ability to target different parts of a ship. Like target the engines to slow them down. Target their warp drive to prevent them from warping. Target their weapons. Target their sensors. Stuff like that. Instead of 1 target lock and multiple modules to do different things. Have to choose what I want to shoot on the ship.

Imagine going into a 1v1 fight. What would you shoot at first on their ship? Weapons, propulsion, warp drive, sensors? Maybe that would give reason to ungroup weapons. Guns 1 and 2 fire on their sensors. Guns 3 and 4 target their engines. Guns 5, 6, 7 and 8 target their weapons.

I saw or heard a dev mention it not long ago.



Imagine going into a 1200v1200 what would crash first your PC or the server
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-12-31 08:28:49 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Alia Ravenswing wrote:
EWAR modules have a chance of success associated to them at the start of each cycle. You have a CHANCE to jam somebody for that one cycle.

Warp Disruption on the other hand is not chancy. If you are in range and you activate it, there is no chance of them warping off unless they already are stronger than that.

I suggest this should be based on chance. A cycle timer for the disruptors and scramblers, and similar modules. You could potentially fail to jam, at which time they will have to align their ship, and activate and get to warp before you as an attacker can re-establish that disruption.

This means not every ship could be a tackler. It would take dedicated ships to do it reliably as they would need multiple disruptors, overlaping, and plenty of cap and CPU for them.

Opinions?


I look forward to the day they remove a lot of these 1 trick pony modules and give us the ability to target different parts of a ship. Like target the engines to slow them down. Target their warp drive to prevent them from warping. Target their weapons. Target their sensors. Stuff like that. Instead of 1 target lock and multiple modules to do different things. Have to choose what I want to shoot on the ship.

Imagine going into a 1v1 fight. What would you shoot at first on their ship? Weapons, propulsion, warp drive, sensors? Maybe that would give reason to ungroup weapons. Guns 1 and 2 fire on their sensors. Guns 3 and 4 target their engines. Guns 5, 6, 7 and 8 target their weapons.

I saw or heard a dev mention it not long ago.


How are you going to shoot up my warp core through shields, armour and hull that can survive a doomsday?
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