Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The issue: unlike every other turret Dreadnought, the Naglfar cannot fit a Siege Module II, a Capital Armor Repairer I, and long range weapons without a fitting module.




The Naglfar runs out of PG before you even get to that point. It requires a Power Diagnostic System in order to fit the above. Or a 1% implant, which sits in Slot 6 and competes with vastly more useful implants.

If you then want to add the Capital Projectile rigs that have become standard on these ships, you have to upgrade that to a faction Power Diagnostic System or a Reactor Control Unit.

Upgrading to named guns does not improve the situation, since named guns give slightly less CPU use, not PG use.

Upgrading to a Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit does not help the situation, since this saves a whopping three (3) CPU!

Contrast this with the Moros, which can fit Siege Module II, two Capital Armor Repairer I's, two Hybrid Weapon rigs, and three long or short range weapons, without encountering any issues.

The Revelation also has no issues fitting either short or long range configurations, with Siege Module II, one Capital Armor Repairer I, and Energy Weapon rigs.

Yes, I am aware that the Phoenix is relatively short on CPU. On the other hand, the Phoenix pilot can fit a couple of cheap faction hardeners (Dread Guristas EM Ward Field is around 25m) and save a lot of CPU - the Naglfar has no such alternative. The Phoenix can also save a lot of CPU by going for the Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I (30 less CPU than the T1). The Phoenix only really starts to have CPU problems once you start adding on the Capital Missile rigs, which may or may not be intentional.

Therefore, it makes sense that CCP do one of several things:

1. Give the Naglfar a touch more powergrid.
2. Lower the fitting requirements for Capital Artillery a touch.
3. Change the "bonus" on the Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit to be less PG used, rather than less CPU.
4. Change the "bonus" on the Quad 3500mm Gallium Cannon to be less PG used, rather than less CPU.

While option 1 or 2 would be preferred, 3 and 4 would at least allow for some fitting creativity.

I have left out option 5, which is probably what CCP will do: nerf the Moros down to the same level as the Revelation (or worse) and disregard the issues with the Naglfar and Phoenix. This reminds me of the joke about the boy with one crippled arm. He prayed to God to "make both arms the same." God heard his prayer and he now had two crippled arms.

Thoughts?

I want make Tank and Gank tooooo!.

Moros weapons need Cap which competes with tankability.
Rev weapons need Cap which competes with tankability.

Nag weapons don't need Cap, must suffer either less offense or less tankability.
Phoenix weapons don't need Cap, must suffer either less offense or less tankability.

That is why you can not fit both Tank and Gank to the Nag and Phoenix, because the Rev and Moros are already natively behind in capacity for tank and gank.

Nag can still shoot without Cap. DPS vs Capless Moros 100% more, even out of siege!

That is why you fit two cap boosters to the Moros. So you can keep shooting and remain close to jump cap.

If you want to talk about cap-using weapons, compare the Moros to the Revelation! Both have weapons that use cap, but the Moros does vastly more DPS (at a trade off in range, of course).

Moros - 12201 DPS at 18+51
Naglfar - 8940 at 24+69
Revelation - 8874 at 36+19.

Someone else can break out the DPS graphs and talk about the point where the Revelation exceeds the Moros and etc. That's not the point of this thread.

I can fly all four Dreadnoughts and have used three of the four in "combat." I don't really have a favorite among them. I've been using Naglfars a lot lately, but still have my Revelations. And I have plans to place to pick up a Moros again.

I like that they are slightly different, with variations in range, damage type, tracking, etc. I'd just like to see them all able to fit their basic modules without too many fitting compromises. I am okay with having to upgrade my modules to make a fit work, but surrendering a low slot just to fit weapons and a single repair unit is a bit unreasonable. Especially when the other three do not have to make this sacrifice.

Shield tank requires no fitting mods.

Seriously. Capless weapons. Shield or armor fit. Turret instant damage. And we are complaining about the Nag? Really?

You know while the majority of the Minmatar ships fit shield or armor and they have a couple of armor boats, the Minmatar are a shield race. They have no armor logi ships. Not every Minmatar ship works as well with armor as with shield.

Please for goodness sake the Nag doesn't need a buff.

Nidhogger has RR bonus to armor and shield. Meaning both shield and armor fits are viable.

Maybe OP trying to fit for some kind of armor doctrine? Or maybe hes trying to sig tank in his nag.. shield fit ruins that..

If you take that last part seriously, go play in traffic.

This is the heart of the issue. The dominant meta for capital fleets is and has been armor tanks.