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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Corp Shares

Author
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-27 09:08:47 UTC
So, i noticed that each corporation has shares, but we dont have a stock market in eve.
Heres my idea.
Each corp has its shares valued, on things like liquid capital available, assets and their value, number of members in the corp etc.age of the corp should also be taken into account.
once a value has been given to a share, the corp CEO can decide what percentange of the number of shares they want to put on the market, say 20%.
so now 20% of the corps shares are on the market for everyone to buy at the given rate, plus a percentage to the broker thats modified by the day trading skill.
a player comes along, buys the shares, with the money, minus tax and brokers fee, going to the corp.
If the corp does well or badly, measured by number of kills, things built, growth in liquid capital, assets etc etc, then the value of the shares increase or decrease.
so, the player that bought the shares sees that they are doing well, and decides to sell, he puts them up for sale, paying the brokers fee. When they sell, the player would get the bulk if the isk, the corp would get a percentage and the tax man would get paid.
this would also happen if the shares decreased but the player would lose money.

The problems that i envisage being the hardest are the share price formula, as players shouldnt be able to set the price of each share. Once the formula is in place, calculating the increase or decrease in value would be dimple putting numbers into the formula.
price variations should be updated every 5 or 10 minutes, to allow for numbers to be updated.
Number of shares should also be increased from 1000 to 10000 or 15000.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-12-27 09:23:13 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
...players shouldnt be able to set the price of each share.

No.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-27 09:31:30 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
...players shouldnt be able to set the price of each share.

No.


Care to elaborate? Whats to stop someone forming a one man corp, putting shares up for a bil each, then shutting down and staring again? Theres a reason why companies irk dont set there own share prices.
Also, without atuomated share prices, how does one price the share that they want to buy or sell?
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-12-27 09:42:09 UTC
What's to stop someone from putting a single unit of titanium up for 1 bil? Without automated pricing, how do we know what my ME 9 Archon BPO is worth?
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-27 09:52:43 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
What's to stop someone from putting a single unit of titanium up for 1 bil? Without automated pricing, how do we know what my ME 9 Archon BPO is worth?


You check, however, how do you check to find out how much a corp has in its wallet? Its level of production? Its activity?
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-12-27 10:04:01 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
You check

Check what, exactly?
Kestral Anneto wrote:
however, how do you check to find out how much a corp has in its wallet? Its level of production? Its activity?

The question is what is the intrinsic value of another corp's wallet to me? Unless I'm a prospective corp thief, that value is zero. Thus, having checked, I can now accurately value the corp's shares at zero. See? And we didn't even need an algorithm to do it.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-12-27 10:08:34 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
You check

Check what, exactly?
Kestral Anneto wrote:
however, how do you check to find out how much a corp has in its wallet? Its level of production? Its activity?

The question is what is the intrinsic value of another corp's wallet to me? Unless I'm a prospective corp thief, that value is zero. Thus, having checked, I can now accurately value the corp's shares at zero. See? And we didn't even need an algorithm to do it.


You dont check to see what your buying? Hold on let me put up a few 1 bil trits for you
and it gives value to the shares as it shows that the corp is less likely, barring thiefs and politics, to fold, if a corp folds, you lose you shares, your isk and any profit that is there to be had.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-12-27 10:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Komi Toran
Kestral Anneto wrote:
You dont check to see what your buying? Hold on let me put up a few 1 bil trits for you

And you don't think before posting.

I know exactly what I check when deciding to buy or sell items. You, apparently, don't, as you need an algorithm to tell you what their value is to you.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-12-27 10:31:24 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
You dont check to see what your buying? Hold on let me put up a few 1 bil trits for you

And you don't think before posting.

I know exactly what I check when deciding to buy or sell items. You, apparently, don't, as you need an algorithm to tell you what their value is to you.


Not for in game items and modules, but to help evaluate a corp to see if its worth buying into, yes, yes i do.
people that trade on the FTSE100 and the Nasdaq need it, so if you dont, your in the wrong job m8.
how about, instead of shooting my idea down, be constructive and alter what you think is wrong.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-12-27 10:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Komi Toran
Kestral Anneto wrote:
people that trade on the FTSE100 and the Nasdaq need it, so if you dont, your in the wrong job m8.

Do people on the FTSE100 routinely buy into companies in environments where there are no legal consequences for CEOs nicking all the assets? You're right, I am in the wrong job.
Kestral Anneto wrote:
how about, instead of shooting my idea down, be constructive and alter what you think is wrong.

It was posted. I think that was wrong. Can we unpost it? I thing that would be a positive improvement.
Ratchet Conway
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-12-27 10:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ratchet Conway
Komi Toran wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
people that trade on the FTSE100 and the Nasdaq need it, so if you dont, your in the wrong job m8.

Do people on the FTSE100 routinely buy into companies in environments where there are no legal consequences for CEOs nicking all the assets? You're right, I am in the wrong job.
Kestral Anneto wrote:
how about, instead of shooting my idea down, be constructive and alter what you think is wrong.

It was posted. I think that was wrong. Can we unpost it? I thing that would be a positive improvement.


^^ this, + people are afraid of corporate takeovers. Apparently shares hold the added advantage of votes in decision making (like disbanding the corp or paying dividends).

everything else is disposable in this game, why not corps?

some of this idea is in partly in the game, but publicly traded corporations are not at the moment.

I think it would be a nice change of pace for us who train into social/trade. give us something to PvP so to speak. (wallet PvP lol) in the end, you don't have to sell if you don't want to. You can just hold on to shares yourself.

Corporations that are blocking this discussion are like miners declaring they should be immune to ganking IMO.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2014-12-27 11:44:49 UTC
Ratchet Conway wrote:

I think it would be a nice change of pace for us who train into social/trade. give us something to PvP so to speak. (wallet PvP lol) in the end, you don't have to sell if you don't want to. You can just hold on to shares yourself.


What do you think buying and trading on the market is?


-1 to the idea CCP has better things to ficus on shares are just a lore way to say votes inside the corp
Ix Method
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-12-27 11:48:43 UTC
Presumably this was the intention from the start but it's hard to see a way to make this both interesting and anything other than a system to scam people without fundamentally altering the game and its culture.

Kestral Anneto wrote:
how about, instead of shooting my idea down, be constructive and alter what you think is wrong.

The reason he's taking a dump on your idea is because it neither works nor fits.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Ratchet Conway
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-12-27 12:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ratchet Conway
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ratchet Conway wrote:

I think it would be a nice change of pace for us who train into social/trade. give us something to PvP so to speak. (wallet PvP lol) in the end, you don't have to sell if you don't want to. You can just hold on to shares yourself.


What do you think buying and trading on the market is?


-1 to the idea CCP has better things to ficus on shares are just a lore way to say votes inside the corp


When managed correctly, shares are a way to decentralize control so that if a CEO's account get's hacked/banned (or dies IRL) you don't lose control of the corp. It's NOT some simple lore/voting mechanism unless you just happen to be managing it that way in your corp.

The difference is it is a commodity that has no other use. These types of investments are generally solely for market speculation and not usually for consumption -- i.e. Mods, ships, craft items... ect.

While you can do the same things with commodities on the market, it does not have any similar impact to the game or people like PvP does. -- this would improve that if only a little to the few who understand it. + it would give corporations a way to make investor interest tangible. The idea is not complete, like the investor interest wallet would have to be like a credit card that couldn't be directly withdrawn from without a majority vote from stockholders, but could be used to pay corp bills and buy corp assets.

The primary change to the game however is that corporations would no longer be a simple guild. I use guild because that's essentially what corps are.( I know you don't like being compared to WOW, but there it is) ---could be another thing that sets eve apart. not a bad idea, but implementing it socially would be traumatizing... much like most peoples first ship loss.