These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Targetting an unmanned ship to stop people from stealing it.......

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-18 22:30:12 UTC
Please fix this broken mechanic.

No reason why an afk alt should be able to stop someone from taking unmanned ships.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-12-18 22:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
If the alt is AFK, shoot it. The only thing broken is your logic.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#3 - 2014-12-18 22:40:16 UTC
wut?

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-12-18 22:51:23 UTC
Hi sec.

MTU warriors using this mechanic to keep their scout and gank ships afk in space till some foolish mission runner decides to engage the cheap bait ship.

They change to the more expensive ones, kill the player, and then park it in space unmanned but targeted.

I could of stolen the expensive unmanned ships but it was targeted by the afk scout ship.

Broken mechanic.

Leave your ship, risk it being stolen.....nope.....another no risk broken mechanic.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2014-12-18 22:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Syn Shi wrote:
Please fix this broken mechanic.

No reason why an afk alt should be able to stop someone from taking unmanned ships.

Use an alt or friend to ECM jam the AFK fool. Take ship.

Bump AFK fool, or their locked ship, out of lock range. Take the ship.

Use an alt or friend to sensor damp the AFK fool below lock range. Take ship.

Destroy AFK fool. Take the ship.

I miss any?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#6 - 2014-12-18 22:53:14 UTC
Does concord respond if you gank an empty ship?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-12-18 22:54:16 UTC
Just steal the wheels instead.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-12-18 22:56:50 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Does concord respond if you gank an empty ship?


Sure will, it be unpiloted not unowned.

They will also smack you down for shooting at blue cargo containers.
Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2014-12-18 23:02:44 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Does concord respond if you gank an empty ship?


Sure will, it be unpiloted not unowned.

They will also smack you down for shooting at blue cargo containers that you don't own.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Cancel Align NOW
Farming Collective of Mould
#10 - 2014-12-18 23:07:55 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Please fix this broken mechanic.

No reason why an afk alt should be able to stop someone from taking unmanned ships.



Why do you not use the other mechanic you claim is broken and bump the target ship out of targeting range?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2014-12-18 23:14:33 UTC
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

I also removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#12 - 2014-12-18 23:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Some very bad logic in this thread.

EHP potential of certain ships (while cap stable with an MWD running...) make bumping or ganking an unfeasible option without the help of a gang a dozen strong. Or in the case of T3s, Orcas and Command Ships, two dozen strong.

OP is correct on some level, however there are other considerations when it comes to this mechanic. Freighter swapping after going suspect comes to mind and can be used as an argument to keep mechanics as is.

If this thread were changed to "Procurer pilot targeting his empty Orca while orbiting with an AB" though, I get the feeling the sentiment in the responses would be very different. Bias is just one of those things Blink.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Paranoid Loyd
#13 - 2014-12-18 23:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
The broken logic in this thread is on the part of the repliers, not the OP.

EHP potential of certain ships (while cap stable with an MWD running...) make bumping or ganking an unfeasible option without the help of a gang a dozen strong.

OP is correct in this regard, however there are other considerations when it comes to this mechanic. Freighter swapping after going suspect comes to mind and can be used as an argument to keep mechanics as is.

If this thread were changed to "Procurer pilot targeting his empty Orca while orbiting with an AB" though, I get the feeling the sentiment would be very different. Bias is just one of those things.

You simply made the opposite assumption "the gankers" did. Your comment is not any less bias than ours without more information as to the actual circumstances.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-12-18 23:30:30 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
If this thread were changed to "Procurer pilot targeting his empty Orca while orbiting with an AB" though, I get the feeling the sentiment in the responses would be very different. Bias is just one of those things Blink.

Why? If someone wants to sell their Orca for the price of a griffin or two, who's going to complain?
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#15 - 2014-12-18 23:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
My point is that the suggestion to change this adversely affects ganker/baiter playstyle which I believe the be the main motivation in defending this mechanic. If used by the carebears to the same affect it wouldn't be surprising to see a different reaction. Maybe I'm wrong but keep in mind I have Mind Reading trained to V.

I hadn't thought of this targeting trick myself before this, I should admit. I fully plan to use it to my advantage. But I don't think it's fair just because it benefits me. That's carebear thinking. Theft is one of my favorite aspects about EVE over other MMOs and this works against it, plain and simple.

Let's move on to what's actually worth discussing which is the mechanic itself.
As an elite EFT warrior I can show you a fit that can keep an unmanned ship locked while orbiting it at 5,000

[Damnation, No Theft]

2x ECCM - Radar II
Sensor Booster II (Targeting Range Script)
Gistum B-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive

2x 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
3x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

2x Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Plug that into EFT and tell me what the plan is to get that from stopping it's targeting of the unmanned ship. Now add boosts and implants. Now replace the ECCM with more targeting range mods and add another alt to the equation using remote ECCM on the Damnation. We can go on like this, but clearly this is not feasible to stop in high-sec. Not without a gang, which I don't think should be a prerequisite when a player wants to steal a single unmanned ship he stumbles upon in open space.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-12-19 01:10:44 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Plug that into EFT and tell me what the plan is to get that from stopping it's targeting of the unmanned ship.

(Shh... nobody tell him about marauders, or he'll have a real fit!)

You're acting like stealing unmanned ships is core gameplay necessary to check player behavior: it's not. If someone wants to go through the trouble of training into a command ship just to keep a ship locked that he isn't currently using, then good for him, I guess. Somehow, EVE will survive the occasionally empty hull sitting in a belt.
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#17 - 2014-12-19 02:26:09 UTC
Hmm, this mechanic (locking a ship prevents anyone from boarding it) seems to have been introduced for a reason, but i haven't been able to find a relevant thread/devblog yet. All the use cases i can think of at the moment are already covered by POS shields. Could anyone please enlighten me as to why it was introduced? Thanks in advance.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2014-12-19 02:38:11 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:
Hmm, this mechanic (locking a ship prevents anyone from boarding it) seems to have been introduced for a reason, but i haven't been able to find a relevant thread/devblog yet. All the use cases i can think of at the moment are already covered by POS shields. Could anyone please enlighten me as to why it was introduced? Thanks in advance.

To stop the Orca risk free pooping out ships/scooping them up.
However the fact that only the intended recipient/orca pilot knows exactly when the ship will be pooped/scooped tends to negate the ability to target the ship to prevent things anyway.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#19 - 2014-12-19 02:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Quote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Plug that into EFT and tell me what the plan is to get that from stopping it's targeting of the unmanned ship.

(Shh... nobody tell him about marauders, or he'll have a real fit!)

You're acting like stealing unmanned ships is core gameplay necessary to check player behavior: it's not. If someone wants to go through the trouble of training into a command ship just to keep a ship locked that he isn't currently using, then good for him, I guess. Somehow, EVE will survive the occasionally empty hull sitting in a belt.

I'm disagreeing with you, not having a fit. This is what we in the civilized world call a discussion.

I am mainly addressing the claim that a single pilot or a pilot and his alt/friend can do much to combat this if the culprit is using a ship fit for the purpose. People said gank him, bump him, jam him, damp him. I'm showing why those suggestions are not feasible.

Marauders is a terrible suggestion anyways. Please don't make suggestions if you are ignorant about game mechanics. In Bastion they can't move, so they can't keep up with the unmanned ship if it's bumped. Out of bastion a Command Ship outdoes it.

Whether the ability to steal unmanned targeted ships is necessary is debatable. As I said in my first post there are reasons to be argued to keep mechanics as is, so it's not long I've put all my eggs into one basket as you seem to suggest. I clearly do think there are also reasons to allow targeted ships to be stolen. EVE is a conflict driven game that thrives off player interaction. The underlying principles promote risk/reward. I think the ability to have your ship stolen if you haven't manned it is part of that risk/reward model. Targeting the ship in the fit I linked breaks the risk/reward model and also stems player interaction.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-12-19 03:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Komi Toran
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
I'm disagreeing with you, not having a fit. This is what we in the civilized world call a discussion.

You are inventing scenarios where people take extreme measures for the purpose of doing something entirely mundane. This is not a discussion. This is a farce. Here's your jester's cap.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
I am mainly addressing the claim that a single pilot or a pilot and his alt/friend can do much to combat this if the culprit is using a ship fit for the purpose.

And no one can stop me from dropping a jet can if I use a ship specifically fit for that purpose. Quick! Nerf jet cans!

What else should we complain about being being able to do without interference? Run D-Scan? Look at their overview? Spin in a station? Turn on their computers? Without demonstrating why this is a problem there is no basis for calling for any change whatsoever.

McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Marauders is a terrible suggestion anyways. In Bastion they can't move, so they can't keep up with the unmanned ship if it's bumped. Out of bastion a Command Ship outdoes it. Please don't make suggestions if you are ignorant about game mechanics. Noobs read these forums you know, they won't know any better.

Which is why you have two. Please keep up.

Edit: And FYI, it only takes your bumping ship of choice and one other player in any other ship (even a pod) to steal the ship out from under your Damnation.
12Next page