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Jump fatigue and shuttles
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commander aze
#1 - 2014-12-17 07:00:07 UTC
So might be a random thought but would be nice to add shuttles to the ships with the 10% jump fatigue timers like the industry ships.

Just throwing it out there as something people might like.

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-12-17 07:10:31 UTC
This was already discussed.

You, as a pilot, ARE the "power."

If you can jump a large distance across the map from one stash of ships to another you are, in fact, projecting power. Hence why you incur jump fatigue in a shuttle.

Now you could get around this by using an Industrial Ship as a makeshift shuttle... but you are slower, less mobile, and a bigger target in one. This was foreseen and deemed as an acceptable tradeoff.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-12-17 07:19:38 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
This was already discussed.

You, as a pilot, ARE the "power."

If you can jump a large distance across the map from one stash of ships to another you are, in fact, projecting power. Hence why you incur jump fatigue in a shuttle.

Now you could get around this by using an Industrial Ship as a makeshift shuttle... but you are slower, less mobile, and a bigger target in one. This was foreseen and deemed as an acceptable tradeoff.

Shh!, Don't let people know they have power.

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commander aze
#4 - 2014-12-17 08:44:08 UTC
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways

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Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#5 - 2014-12-17 14:33:15 UTC
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways


You're misunderstanding the change slightly. The reason industry ships got that bonus was to reduce the impact jump fatigue had on hauling and logistics. It wasn't specifically about combat.

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2014-12-17 15:03:25 UTC
Niskin wrote:
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways


You're misunderstanding the change slightly. The reason industry ships got that bonus was to reduce the impact jump fatigue had on hauling and logistics. It wasn't specifically about combat.


To add to this CCP said that the reduction on the indi ships as well as the JFs getting a 10LY range was only temporary to lighten the logistic strain as the rest of the null sec changes were implemented

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-12-17 16:51:54 UTC
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways

So you don't think that shuttles are faster or harder to catch than an Iteron mark V?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2014-12-17 16:57:12 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:

So you don't think that shuttles are faster or harder to catch than an Iteron mark V?


Like i just said in the post above industry ships were given a temporary pass out of necessity and probably wont keep it no need to add this reprieve to more ships that does not fill the highly needed logistical roles the ships that currently posses the 90% reduction just to also have it removed when they do.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
commander aze
#9 - 2014-12-17 22:06:39 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways

So you don't think that shuttles are faster or harder to catch than an Iteron mark V?

In null they are much easier to catch because they cant fit a cloak or micro warps/ afterburners 1 bubble its gameover for a shuttle.

yes the real power is the pilot but the penalty assess should be based on what they are bringing through and I think the shuttle for those that use them would be a good addition to the reduced fatigue. Most bridging takes place in null either form titans or jump bridge networks. I feel this would provide content and options for piltos to move quickly with the penalty being simply the ship they are in. for those that live long distance from high sec the old jump bridge networks don't work well anymore. to clarify I'm also not saying that it shouldn't take time to get from the outer edge to low sec. but again it falls on the ship itself having penalties already assigned to it.

really I'm waiting for someone to post a kill report of a battle iteron and claim its effectiveness in a fight....but the same cannot be said for shuttles in any way.

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2014-12-17 23:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
commander aze wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
So you don't think that shuttles are faster or harder to catch than an Iteron mark V?

In null they are much easier to catch because they cant fit a cloak or micro warps/ afterburners 1 bubble its gameover for a shuttle.

Except we're talking about jump bridges... not gates. If you have a hostile bubble around your jump bridge point (whether it be a Titan or POS module) then you have much bigger problems than simply "getting around."

commander aze wrote:
Most bridging takes place in null either form titans or jump bridge networks. I feel this would provide content and options for piltos to move quickly with the penalty being simply the ship they are in. for those that live long distance from high sec the old jump bridge networks don't work well anymore. to clarify I'm also not saying that it shouldn't take time to get from the outer edge to low sec. but again it falls on the ship itself having penalties already assigned to it.

The part I underlined was the entire point behind the jump fatigue changes.
You are not supposed to quickly and efficiently skip around the map like before. Either take the fatigue penalty... or take the stargates and risk that comes with them... or consolidate your territories for easier movement.

With regards to the rest of it... the posts above (as well as mine) explain why hauler ships got the fatigue reducing bonus and not shuttles.

commander aze wrote:
really I'm waiting for someone to post a kill report of a battle iteron and claim its effectiveness in a fight....but the same cannot be said for shuttles in any way.

Industrials are not effective in a fight. That is not the argument. They are simply easier to grab, slower to get around, and (in the case of Titan bridges) require more fuel to be bridged.
A shuttle aligns faster, warps faster, and (in the case of Titan Bridges) uses negligible amount of fuel due to its low mass.
Both are equally dead in a hostile, manned bubble.

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Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-12-17 23:19:57 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Niskin wrote:
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways


You're misunderstanding the change slightly. The reason industry ships got that bonus was to reduce the impact jump fatigue had on hauling and logistics. It wasn't specifically about combat.


To add to this CCP said that the reduction on the indi ships as well as the JFs getting a 10LY range was only temporary to lighten the logistic strain as the rest of the null sec changes were implemented


And then the person who was leading this team left CCP for undisclosed reasons a week later.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2014-12-17 23:36:25 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Niskin wrote:
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways


You're misunderstanding the change slightly. The reason industry ships got that bonus was to reduce the impact jump fatigue had on hauling and logistics. It wasn't specifically about combat.


To add to this CCP said that the reduction on the indi ships as well as the JFs getting a 10LY range was only temporary to lighten the logistic strain as the rest of the null sec changes were implemented


And then the person who was leading this team left CCP for undisclosed reasons a week later.

And yet the team he led still continues his work in the background (because one person can't make such sweeping changes without support from many, many others).

One person leaving a company is not the end of the world... nor does it make/break an ongoing project.

How did you Veterans start?
Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2014-12-17 23:49:52 UTC
The answer is simple. If you have to travel for any decent length since the jump changes, get an interceptor. Even with 90% fatigue reduction, it is still faster to fly 20 jumps in an interceptor than it is to take 3 jump bridges with an industrial.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-12-18 00:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
commander aze wrote:
Currently I use a iteron mark 5 to go back and forth on a jump bridge. The purpose for the industry ships getting this is they really don't serve a combat purpose. .. shuttles are frankly worse and I don't think it would hinder current game play any more than now. As generally they are not used all that much in null sec anyways

The real reason Indy ships were given this bonus was because CCP acknowledged nullsec industry is not ready to stand on its own. My hope is that this bonus is temporary and will become void once everything is properly fixed.

Pilot projection is also why the clone station mechanics were changed.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-12-18 00:48:09 UTC
Rowells wrote:
The real reason Indy ships were given this bonus was because CCP acknowledged nullsec industry is not ready to stand on its own. My hope is that this bonus is temporary and will become void once everything is properly fixed.

Here here!

As long as by "fixed" you mean jump fatigue is removed. :P