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Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#661 - 2014-12-11 14:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eraza
Jonahs Chensua wrote:
Vasea Azure wrote:
CCP should give us option to use old icons style if we dont like new ones. Simple.


ABSOLUTELY !!! These new monochrome icons are horrid. Anyone with half a brain knows that the human eye/brain function works 1st off of movement, 2nd COLOR, 3rd rough shape, 4th fully focused image. Why is anyone at CCP unaware of this fact? I realize that icon don't move on their own, however you now have to take considerable amount of time to focus on these little squares that have no reference color at all. This reminds me of some low quality cheap bargain bin games I have had in the past.

I don't feel that in playing Eve I need to spend extra time trying to read tiny little Egyptian sandstone hieroglyphics.

I also agree with some other that the new graphics DO cheapen some of the looks of the ship skins. Caldari now actually look more fake and lifeless, and Amarrian intense gold plated bling is really similar to a cheap Walmart kids toy.

Just wondering what other grand "improvements" I will find when I play this weekend.


An interesting compromise with the new icons and color, made by Chribba, that I quite like.
http://i.imgur.com/Hgb2EYw.png

On the ships, yeah, the new lighting is very odd with some ships.
I think most ships do look better, but there are exceptions.
The Enyo for one looks EXTREMELY chrome.. it's like someone tried to troll people by going way overkill with chrome.. maybe it's to disrupt optical sensors? :P
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#662 - 2014-12-11 14:22:44 UTC
Jonahs Chensua wrote:
Vasea Azure wrote:
CCP should give us option to use old icons style if we dont like new ones. Simple.


ABSOLUTELY !!! These new monochrome icons are horrid. Anyone with half a brain knows that the human eye/brain function works 1st off of movement, 2nd COLOR, 3rd rough shape, 4th fully focused image.


Actually the peripheral vision, which is most sensitive to movement, is colour blind.

Anyway the fundamental issues with UI colours are the following:

- colour is subjective to a larger extent than form
- certain colours draw more attention than others
- certain colour combinations are massively more legible than others
- a few highlight colours can be used for drawing attention, in otherwise monochrome environment, but too many colours nullifies this

Now consider the Neocom, which can host a few dozen icons, which are all basically equal in importance. Giving them all different colours of equal importance is literally impossible, and giving them all different hues is also impossible. This leaves you with several icons with the same colour (adding to confusion), and some appearing more important than others.

Making them mono solves all these issues, while leaving colour for more important things- such as the timer indicators. Red, yellow, green and blue are all super useful for them. Just like for simple UIs like a playhead, stop button is red, play is green. These are established colour codes, but what colours is contract? Why market would be purple, and factional warfare brown? This lack of logical connection makes colours a detriment to legibility.

Furthermore, graphical icons are secondary method of interacting with an application to open windows (subprograms), it's by nature less efficient than using keyboard shortcuts. Why search for an icon and position the cursor over an icon, when the same thing can be achieved by a keystroke?

In the end, the main task of a GUI is to stay out of the way of the actual content. EVE is very much like Photoshop, (or any Adobe program), a monochrome GUI fades away, leaving the user to focus on the gorgeous view to space.



Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#663 - 2014-12-11 14:36:04 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Jonahs Chensua wrote:
Vasea Azure wrote:
CCP should give us option to use old icons style if we dont like new ones. Simple.


ABSOLUTELY !!! These new monochrome icons are horrid. Anyone with half a brain knows that the human eye/brain function works 1st off of movement, 2nd COLOR, 3rd rough shape, 4th fully focused image.


Actually the peripheral vision, which is most sensitive to movement, is colour blind.

Anyway the fundamental issues with UI colours are the following:

- colour is subjective to a larger extent than form
- certain colours draw more attention than others
- certain colour combinations are massively more legible than others
- a few highlight colours can be used for drawing attention, in otherwise monochrome environment, but too many colours nullifies this

Now consider the Neocom, which can host a few dozen icons, which are all basically equal in importance. Giving them all different colours of equal importance is literally impossible, and giving them all different hues is also impossible. This leaves you with several icons with the same colour (adding to confusion), and some appearing more important than others.

Making them mono solves all these issues, while leaving colour for more important things- such as the timer indicators. Red, yellow, green and blue are all super useful for them. Just like for simple UIs like a playhead, stop button is red, play is green. These are established colour codes, but what colours is contract? Why market would be purple, and factional warfare brown? This lack of logical connection makes colours a detriment to legibility.

Furthermore, graphical icons are secondary method of interacting with an application to open windows (subprograms), it's by nature less efficient than using keyboard shortcuts. Why search for an icon and position the cursor over an icon, when the same thing can be achieved by a keystroke?

In the end, the main task of a GUI is to stay out of the way of the actual content. EVE is very much like Photoshop, (or any Adobe program), a monochrome GUI fades away, leaving the user to focus on the gorgeous view to space.




Interesting point.. however, I usually don't look for "market" as such, I seek it's specific color, and move things apart so no two similarly colored items are close

"cyan, near the top" is VERY easy to find, very fast

The current icons all look the same unless I make them so big that they get in the way.

So yeah, very interesting theory, one I haven't heard before.. but in effect, the current implementation dosn't appear to work quite right.
Since the patch I NEED the icons as big as possible, or I cant tell them apart remotely fast
and they get in the way like that.
Priscille
State War Academy
Caldari State
#664 - 2014-12-11 14:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Priscille
Once again ccp remove a possible choice just to impose it's own preferences, exactly like with the Captain Quarter's experience when several weeks of complains were needed to have the option back to just use old docking interface.

Now it's the colors of the Windows : we have had the possibility to choose the colors we liked and suddenly that choice was removed and ccp impose us it's own taste.

Just one question guys : is this game is build for the pleasure of some programers in search of pseudo-artistical aknowledgement or is this game is still built for the pleasure of the players ?

P.S. : And for ppl who like the new colors : perfect keep it no problem, the return of the rgb slider option will not remove anything for u, that will just bring back to us what we like.

P.S. 2 : for a more positive feedback : great Job for the new map, i'm impatient to see the implementation of probing within it.
Sky Marshal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#665 - 2014-12-11 15:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
Priscille wrote:
Just one question guys : is this game is build for the pleasure of some programers in search of pseudo-artistical aknowledgemnt or is this game is still built for the pleasure of the players ?

That is a good question... and the first proposition would explain why EvE don't grow since a while...

I guess that artists can still be not understood this days =) I hope that they can still find something to eat.
Oraac Ensor
#666 - 2014-12-11 15:21:26 UTC
Lara Divinity wrote:
i dont know if someone elses has this issue but upon every login my evemail blinks for no reason at all cause when i check eve mail theres nothing there
im curious if im the only one with this issue

I'm getting that too - never had it before Rhea.
Haege Estidal
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2014-12-11 15:35:03 UTC
I get that too, mail keeps flashing after I logged in but no unread mail.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#668 - 2014-12-11 15:53:27 UTC
Posting here to request for the "focus changes brightness" to be removed from all windows with a checkbox. After this, could we get Cool Grey back? Reading white text on pitch black background is hell compared to white on a medium grey.
Drakine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#669 - 2014-12-11 16:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Drakine
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread, now posted it to Rhea issues.
Kerrat Braban
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#670 - 2014-12-11 16:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerrat Braban
Well, I just put the color to "Plasma", turn off window blur, set transparency to 5% and I think I can live with it.

But the Icon coloring proposed here http://i.imgur.com/Hgb2EYw.png would truly help, I don't care for (dis)information by people who like it minimalistic and monochrome, I like it different, having set the icons to be quite small, color plus form helps me find the right square in the row much quicker than form alone.

BTW the reworked ships mostly look good - if you, like me, like cheap 1970s die-cast plastic toys made in Hong Kong which I partially grew up with :)

Edit: I tried different graphics modes (I play on medium) and the ships do look better on high, but I prefer quick over crisp :)
But a warning, don't try to set it to low or your eyes will bleed :D
Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#671 - 2014-12-11 16:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiay Saito
Here's my feedback so far, excuse me if I repeat myself as I only skimmed the thread so far:

ALL HAIL THE NEW ICONS
they're wonderful. I've only played for about a month, and I never could tell the difference between the icons. I'd hover over them thinking "is this ship fitting.. or market..?"
My first impression of the new icons is that the clear outlines of the shapes will make it a lot easier to recognise them. I think they could've done with some subtle colors though, why not make that an option?

The blurry background in windows is nice. Though there isn't enough difference between pinned and unpinned. To me, pinned could be how it is now, and unpinned could do with less or no blur. The point of unpinned is that I can see what is going on underneath, is it not?

---

As for the ships.. so before, I played with a mix of low/medium settings. I'm afraid I can't tell you the exact set up, but it was alright. Ships looked nice, nothing to blow your socks off but nothing to frown at either.

When I logged in after the update-- my ship looked like it was made of cardboard. The same settings I'd had before were now absolutely useless.
I understand that since I'm currently running on a rMBP with integrated graphics, I don't get to expect much. But why not let the folks with the amazing graphic cards have their fun, while still making things still look *reasonable* for folks like me?

Ok, so I decided to set the graphics to high to see how that'd work out. Which leads me to my next point:

There's one part of this update which I really hate with a passion. In fact, it's so awful that I don't know why others haven't noticed it, but apparently I'm alone in this (so far)- the gold on the Amarr ships looks tacky, and the white/grey parts look dirty. I could not be more dismayed at this if they'd bedazzled the Amarr symbol with rhinestones.

In short, the Amarr ships looks like a Dubai Billionaire had a gold version made.

Here's what I mean:
http://i.imgur.com/vUk3GaT.jpg

I'm still hoping maybe I have a setting wrong somewhere to be seeing it like this. The gold is just way too shiny- it needs to be subtle.

and btw, I don't hate all gold. But there's decent, tasteful, subtle use of gold.. and this is not it.
Yarven Onzo
Doomheim
#672 - 2014-12-11 17:00:05 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Orchid Fury wrote:
Presidente Gallente wrote:

Because it's new. That's the simple answer here. CCP made changes and many people are not able to deal with changes. Text like here in this post/thread is also looking the same all the time but when you start to read it it becomes sense. Same with the icons. Get familar with them how you got familar with the old icons. If someone would completely change your GUI layout you would feel lost in the first minutes. Using a GUI is becoming intuitive when you get used to it like knowing where menues are. Finally you use icons blindly because of how you placed them. Beside that people have a different taste for design. Fair enough. I swear if we had the new icons before and now the old ones we end up in a similar thread and people want the former ones back.


no the iconization is horrible, otherwise people would not be complaining or having get used to it. good iconization is if the meaning represented by the icon is instantly recognized without having to remember it. the icon has to transport that thru its representation. an icon shall not just be a placeholder that you need to remember in order to get where you want. the new icons sadly fail in this regard.


Or maybe you just have to accept the fact that you are wrong?

Unlike the old icons, the new ones are clear and logically represent the feature they are linked to. For the first time in EVE, people are actually able to know what the icon does without learning it by trial and error. The old icons never worked this well, even after years of use.



LIES and you know you are lying !
Saturday Beerun
Lost Ark Enterprises
#673 - 2014-12-11 17:29:36 UTC
With all the lovely new icons in the ui,its a shame I still have a nice picture of my char in the neocom.Can this be upgraded to match the rest of the ui.It looks so odd and lonely now.

I Want The Black Vindicator Back
Saturday Beerun
Lost Ark Enterprises
#674 - 2014-12-11 17:34:40 UTC
I can't see the new map.I ticked the little box and bugger all has happened.Does something else need to be done.I want to join in the ooohs and ahhhhs,cos theres sod all else to be pleased about.I have a Vindicator I could shave in.I would prefer a black one just like I used to have.

I Want The Black Vindicator Back
Eryn Velasquez
#675 - 2014-12-11 17:36:15 UTC
Nice work on many ships - but the Anshar's new colours are butt-ugly

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Jinn Aideron
#676 - 2014-12-11 17:36:20 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
...
Now consider the Neocom, which can host a few dozen icons, which are all basically equal in importance. Giving them all different colours of equal importance is literally impossible, and giving them all different hues is also impossible. This leaves you with several icons with the same colour (adding to confusion), and some appearing more important than others.

Making them mono solves all these issues, while leaving colour for more important things- such as the timer indicators.
...

This, so much.

And it also allows integration with selected color themes.


Re alotofthisthread:
Any person serious about It takes so long to find my icon now! would've already switched to keyboard shortcuts ages ago. Roll :P


Hopefully clientside themes, .xml, .json, in lieu of RGB sliders will be a thing in the future. Should be easy enough.

Stealth deletes are bad.
Jake Chely
Star Nation
Goonswarm Federation
#677 - 2014-12-11 17:53:48 UTC
I started to play EVE less than 2 months ago after reading an article about it.
The main question was : How can EVE still be live after more than 10 years? And one of the answer was : because devs pay attention to people playing their game and consider feedback is important.

I decided to try and started with Trial Account.
I immediately liked it and I didn't even wait for my trial to be over before subscribing.
Even my not so recent computer could run the game smoothly as long as I would not ask for too many advanced features.
I was quite happy with this game and started to think I would probably play it for a while..

Then this patch was released.

The icons, are O.K.. I think I could get used to them after a while. No big deal here.
But the interface ? Everything is laggy now. I tried to put transparence to 0, deactivate any fency feature, nothing changed. Windows, mouse cursor, everything is laggy now. Even the solar system map when probing is laggy. I don't even talk about hacking window...

I logged in about 2 hours ago, started to play the way I was before and logged out 1 hour later, pissed of by these laggy windows that ruined my gameplay.
I can't see an improvement here. The interface was O.K. the way it was. I don't really know what causes that window lag but I do know one thing, I can't play a game with laggy interface.

I have 2 more weeks until my subscription expires. Sadly, it will probably expire for good Sad.
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#678 - 2014-12-11 19:26:09 UTC
Sorry, but on low, medium or high graphical settings the new lighting model makes everything look terrible.

Personal Standings Services - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - 7+ Day Old Corps for Highsec POS Sales
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#679 - 2014-12-11 20:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Eraza
Jake Chely wrote:
I started to play EVE less than 2 months ago after reading an article about it.
The main question was : How can EVE still be live after more than 10 years? And one of the answer was : because devs pay attention to people playing their game and consider feedback is important.

I decided to try and started with Trial Account.
I immediately liked it and I didn't even wait for my trial to be over before subscribing.
Even my not so recent computer could run the game smoothly as long as I would not ask for too many advanced features.
I was quite happy with this game and started to think I would probably play it for a while..

Then this patch was released.

The icons, are O.K.. I think I could get used to them after a while. No big deal here.
But the interface ? Everything is laggy now. I tried to put transparence to 0, deactivate any fency feature, nothing changed. Windows, mouse cursor, everything is laggy now. Even the solar system map when probing is laggy. I don't even talk about hacking window...

I logged in about 2 hours ago, started to play the way I was before and logged out 1 hour later, pissed of by these laggy windows that ruined my gameplay.
I can't see an improvement here. The interface was O.K. the way it was. I don't really know what causes that window lag but I do know one thing, I can't play a game with laggy interface.

I have 2 more weeks until my subscription expires. Sadly, it will probably expire for good Sad.


I haven't seen any slowdown on either of my systems, so I'm going to be hopeful that that slowdown is a bug, especially since it only happens to some people.
EDIT: on second thought, it could be that it's one of those new effects that I would like to disable but don't have settings for.
Maybe those aren't very easy on resources, that variable focus/fade thing comes to mind pretty quickly.

On the devs listening though.. I really am hoping they hear us, although it would be nice to see a blue post, if only to show that they didn't just make this post to make us vent in a specific place.
Although seeing as how negative this thread is, I'm not surprised they are hiding.

In the end, we need to give them a chance to fix this though, fuming at them wont really increase the chances of them joining the conversation.

Think of it this way, would YOU join a conversation where you would probably get yelled at immediately upon showing your face?
To be honest, I wouldn't :)
Tiberius Mathusia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#680 - 2014-12-11 20:48:34 UTC
With the exception of the Tristan I'm not loving the Gallente ships. Far too shiny and a weird shade of green. Incursus is slightly improved by the removal of that stupid pointy thing.