Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Mining barges should have around 100+k of structure.
Now they are instantly killed by any roaming group - no way to save them and have GF during this process.

The main problem with mining barges is that no matter what, they die.

Clueless people often spew nonsense like "hire protection" or "have combat ships on the belt", etc...
It just doesn't matter. You can have entire hero coalition on your belt and your barges would still die to a single Naga 2-shotting them from sniping distance before it's even locked.

You say "mine in Procurers", I hear "trash your income". A full squad mining in Procurers (with boosts and hauler not counted as squad) makes about the same as 2 T1 bs alts ratting. Odyssey rolled mining down from the table and shattered it in pieces, which could no longer be glued together no matter how many man-hours and Fozzie-hours were spent on it. About the only ones who could make something of it were the input broadcasters, and after they're gone we're going to need another rebalance, no matter what yet another clueless F1 monkey thinks.

Personally, I'm waiting for it, ready to resume Foreman duties I had prior to Odyssey, when they had a meaning. Now you can just rat harder and still get everything even if trit goes up to 10 ISK/unit, which makes mining pointless.

Nobody is afraid of CODE. It never disrupted me, and I can't see how they can do it. I'll put it plainly: They are bad, and if miner harassment weren't the easiest thing in current Eve, they'd not be doing it. The whole CODE existence owes to a fact that Odyssey has dumbed down the miner ganking to the point where people who literally failed at everything else could still manage a 50% success rate at it, despite it becoming completely fool-proof activity. And some of them still manage to complain about it.

Talking about bad, you're the one to mention. The issue with mining that no matter if you increase or decrease build requirements, miner stay at the same relative income - the only difference is comparative to professions which DO NOT use minerals, as mineral requirements are just miner-hours essentially, and build requirements are the same as mining yield in this matter - both only affect miner-hours required to get X. In that sense, miner-hours are the currency, and ISK is the other currency, and they are exchangeable, but rate is not fixed. Miner-hours, like real currency, are subject to inflation, and depend on the economy of the goods acquired by spending miner-hours on them. You buff yield - miner-hours to ISK rate decreases, you increase requirements - miner-hours to ISK rate increases, nothing else changes. Basically, that means that any yield is fine, but producing less miner-hours than the next guy isn't.

Now back to point: I'm not here to discuss miner-hours to ISK exchange rate. It was low, it was high, currently it's low again, whatever, different topic entirely. The bottom line is that there is no meaningful choice here. We have a barge supposedly good for fleet ops, which sucks at fleet ops, we have a barge supposedly good at solo mining, which sucks at solo mining, and we have the barge that sucks at everything but EHP, but we're forced to use it because of how ridiculously easy it is for everything, rats included, to drop any other barge before any sane amount of defenders can drop it. I'm not mentioning exhumers, because they have no meaningful advantage over barges anyway, they're like those shiny mission ships you can go without, not losing efficiency noticeably.

I will dumb my point down so even CODE adepts can understand: Mine barges won't mine! We have 4 barges which plainly can't mine, 2 that can, and one of the 2 is overpriced with no meaningful advantage. After those semi-bot fleets (for whom it didn't matter) are gone, we're going to need that addressed. That's all.

Are you serious? Did u miss the 35k ore hold that didnt use to be there? And all the exhumers are worth the skill points

No. Retties dont need to solo null belts and you shouldnt expect them to. fly skiff, fly in a gang, have a combat alt etc etc

If there would be a mining ship which have a big tank, i think they would call it procurer or skiff.

Use them !

And don´t cry at ccp because the ship you use is not the best for it.

-1

Every T1/T2 Barge with max yieldfit and T1-Stripminer without bonuses or imps:

-Covetor: 3x1002,46 m³/144 s = 1253 m³/min

-Retriever: 2x1365,85 m³/162 s = 1012 m³/min

-Procurer: 1x2506.15 m³/162 s = 928,2 m³/min

So going out from the Procurer:

Retriever has 9,05 % more yield and your covetor has 35% more yield.

The Retriever has a way bigger ore hold and a higher max yield. The covetor is how intended the "best" for making most m³ in the same time and the Procurer is the one with the biggest tank and the lowest yield and a small cargo.

Now choose. And don´t blame CCP the ship you use is not as good as you wished it to be.

Just 4 infos:

-Hulk: 3x1002,46 m³/122.4 s = 1474 m³/min
-Mackinaw: 2x1365,85 m³/145.8 s = 1124 m³/min
-Skiff: 1x2731,70 m³/145.8 s = 1124 m³/min

You got for everything one specialist (Max ore/ Max tank/ Max cargo) so i don´t see the point in your thread.

still

-1

Links multiplying by a proportional amount by all hull, the relative value between them stays the same with or without links.

Also there's a small issue here. YOU do not appear to believe that the difference is worth it. Oddly enough, several thousand players actually flying them seem to disagree. That you don't agree with everyone else does not magically make it a problem

*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

Since this seems to be going nowhere and speaking with you is like talking to a brick wall, may the ISD's lock the thread asap.

As long time miner (like, some years doing it) I can add this as my 2 cents :

-covetor/hulk are for fleets who 1: mine in H-S or 2: can prevent people jumping into the belt and wreck NPC in null

-retriever are for H-S solo miners (better and cheaper to use procurer for skills-noobs in null, and cheap to replace after gankin H-S)

-mackinaw are for miners who have both skills to fit and iskies to pay faction fit (a 200M hull shouldn't have only T2 on it), I use them to tank npc in null (not everything for now can be tanked but I have room for improvement left)

-Skiff are for cowa.. hum solo miners who don't want to bother with gank and/or NPC in null, by just easily putting a STRONK T2 tank on it

-procurers are for same thing as skiff but waaaaay cheaper skills and isk wise, some rare null npc can cause problem tough.

This. My wh runs the same way. Retrievers are used as they afk. if they come back to the pc in station oh well no big. Although we don't have much of a drone cloud and just clear the rats (in the lower sites they don't re-spawn so only ever one wave not sure if that s true for all wh's grav sites)