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Supercapital Construction : no SOV requirement

Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2014-12-01 08:47:26 UTC
Hello fellow capsulers, as you all know, in terms of SOV without supers you cannot do much.
Even after the changes those ships are more important or even much more important than any other ship you can field.

Currently in order to build this kind of ship - you need not only materials, but also SOV - and this puts new groups in very bad position.

Eve is changing so i think it is time to change also this aspect of the game.


What i propose is to untie the Supercapital construction from Sov requirements.
Instead of this building supers in Sov should just give some additional benefits.

Change that i propose is very simple :
1. We increase base build time of all supers by 20% ( i know you all love this change )
2. Installing in the system : Supercapital Construction Facilities give you 20% time reduction for all superacapital construction jobs.
3. (the fun part) If you want to build your super in lowsec , you will get additional slowdown of construction process by 20%
( concord is triple checking every thing )

Summarizing:

Building a titan in known space:
- in a Nullsec ( any ) will take 20% more time
- in a Nullsec , where you have access to Supercapital Construction Facilities , it will take the same amount time like now
- in a Lowsec will take 40% more time

Kiera Rhathe
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2014-12-01 08:52:26 UTC
What about in jspace?
Aran Hotchkiss
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-01 08:59:46 UTC
This is a trivial point, but a 20% increase followed by a 20% decrease is less than the original.

I.e.

100 * 1.2 (+20%) = 120
120 * 0.8 (-20%) = 96
a 4% reduction overall
Also

100 * 1.2 (+20%) = 120
120 * 1.2 (+20%) = 144
a 44% increase instead of 40%



The point ^ made about j-space is a good one - what are your ideas there.

You should have enough control over your herd of cats to make them understand. If they constantly make misstakes, get better cats.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-12-01 09:00:59 UTC
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Anthar Thebess
#5 - 2014-12-01 09:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Kiera Rhathe wrote:
What about in jspace?


Do you really want to have supers in J space?
I vote for removing all of them from the game ... but this will never happen , to many players invested to much time in obtaining those.
Let's not brake the J space....

Gap between older players, and big groups grow every day, and every super deployed deep in nullsec.
CCP didn't introduced any good way you can remove those behemoths from eve , you still need big blob to kill those before reinforcements arrive.

This change is to make access to those ships more dynamic, and viable for small ( especially new ) groups.
This will again remove , some gap , between new and older players and will create some content.

Remember.
Building super in lowsec will take 40% more time than in upgraded sov space.

Aran Hotchkiss wrote:
This is a trivial point, but a 20% increase followed by a 20% decrease is less than the original.

I.e.

100 * 1.2 (+20%) = 120
120 * 0.8 (-20%) = 96
a 4% reduction overall
Also

100 * 1.2 (+20%) = 120
120 * 1.2 (+20%) = 144
a 44% increase instead of 40%



The point ^ made about j-space is a good one - what are your ideas there.


Your math is better.
But i think i made clear that after those changes building a super in a upgraded sov will require as much time as you need now.
Nullsec without upgrade +20% time
Lowsec +40% time.



Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.

CCP remove all supers - please ( this is my personal opinion).
But this will never happen.

Blocking access to those ships will be bad thing now.
Eve space is just floating with supers - if we make access to them for new players harder , eve will become more stagnant.

Unless CCP create new ship : THE RAM , that will have Jump drive and will be capable of destroying a super at cost of its own life ... new people must have supers to compete with older players.

Remember that many super pilots are bought off the market , so SP is not the issue here.
Scooby Booby Boo
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-12-02 10:29:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.



Why not just remove BPOs (with compensation) and limit supers production to BPCs, dropped by incursion-like mechanism for each of the empires. Prices go up, and I bet people would be a lot more careful about where they're building their stuff, and about the way they use it.
Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2014-12-02 11:13:43 UTC
Because we have already tons of supers in the game.
Those are strategic level assets , and if we do what you want ( and i agree that it should be done this way ) new players and groups will have hard time acquiring this stuff.

Especially when you include into this that other super groups will be putting more and more pressure to acquire new ships for their own fleets.

This topic is about removing sov dependency on constructing those ships, and that's all.
Helios Panala
#8 - 2014-12-02 11:46:03 UTC
I think the key is to close the power gap between supercaps and regular capitals without making supers pointless. The sov requirement wouldn't matter so much then.

Supercaps to regular capitals as BCs are to cruisers.
Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2014-12-02 11:48:54 UTC
You cannot do it.
Supers :
- enormous EHP
- big firepower

What will you take from them.
Helios Panala
#10 - 2014-12-02 12:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Helios Panala
Anthar Thebess wrote:
You cannot do it.
Supers :
- enormous EHP
- big firepower

What will you take from them.


Enormous EHP. Build costs scaled accordingly of course.
Super carriers and Titans were obviously never meant to exist in the numbers they do, seeing as that's impossible to change now they should instead be scaled downed to be closer to regular Carriers and Dreadnoughts. Isn't the Eve philosophy supposed to be that bigger isn't better? At the moment Supers are just bigger better versions of Caps, especially the Carriers.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#11 - 2014-12-02 15:08:04 UTC
Death to all supers.

Delete them all.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2014-12-03 07:17:32 UTC
I agree , but CCP will never do it.
We need to live with them , and new groups need to have access to them.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#13 - 2014-12-03 07:32:13 UTC
but I want to have a titian to protect my c1. you know thats what they are there for.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#14 - 2014-12-03 07:50:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.


Not empty quoting.
Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2014-12-03 07:55:25 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.


Not empty quoting.

Again i agree ... but the moment that current super swarms will be gone from the game.

What you are saying :
- make supers harder to get ( and this is good thing )

Outcome will be :
- we have 250 supers , we have space, we have income - no one will be able to contest us from new groups ( and this is not so good thing )
Anthar Thebess
#16 - 2014-12-09 07:52:07 UTC
More support!
If you like this idea - please post here to keep this topic visible.
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#17 - 2014-12-09 09:12:35 UTC
Building supers is one of the few perks to owning sov.

Death to all supers.
Sigras
Conglomo
#18 - 2014-12-09 10:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.

So much this...

What really needs to happen is the industry index needs to be effected by manufacturing, and the requirement for a CSAA needs to be changed to require industry 5 and cost 20 million a month.

That way alliances are incentivized to consolidate their supercap construction and attacking/capturing an alliance's supercapital shipyards is a much bigger deal.

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Supers should be harder to construct, or eliminated from the game entirely. Last thing that should happen is them becoming easier to make.


Not empty quoting.

Again i agree ... but the moment that current super swarms will be gone from the game.

What you are saying :
- make supers harder to get ( and this is good thing )

Outcome will be :
- we have 250 supers , we have space, we have income - no one will be able to contest us from new groups ( and this is not so good thing )

This is an invalid argument... This has never happened in the history of Eve, there has always been more than one faction.

It's simply never going to happen, and since sov is already required for supercapital construction, if it were going to happen, it would have by now.