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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Author
RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#1101 - 2014-11-26 07:46:44 UTC
Actually i this is a email I sent to CCP Eterne earlier today about this very subject. I sent the note to him after he did a nice job of closing a forum which what degenerated into a lot misstatements and probab ly some down right intentional mistruths which just supported the person's position. This was happening on both sides of the issue, so it was certainly time to shut it down. I'm trying to get this in before that happens here, as many incorrect statements are being made already.

Hi,

I just read your statement at the end of a closed forum started by a guy who petitioned some use of IS Boxer.  I thank you for your sanity and tact.

I believe one of the last posters hit the nail on the head and I want to reaffirm it and ask you to forward this to the ones who keep this topic under review.

Key cloning is simply allowing a single player to operate every account paid for by that single person with the same speed as if each account were being played by a single person.  It allows a person to get full value for each of their subscriptions; every subscription can perform the action desired by the player at the precise time the player desires that action to occur.

(edited in - there are no bots - none)

In a different view, five players paying five subscriptions playing one character each can mine faster than one player paying for five subscriptions can mine with five characters.  The single player payinf for five accounts is at a disadvantage to the five single players.  Key cloning levels the playing field for the player who pays for five subscriptions when competing with the five players paying for one subscriptions each.

If the skills, modules, implants, links, and fleet boosts are all equal for a really oversized sized fleet (but used for comparison) of  20 players paying for 20 subscriptions playing one character each are compared to one player another ridiculous possiblity and not anything I would ever trust doing) paying for 20 subscriptions for a fleet of 20 multiboxed characters and is able to play each character with an equal use of each subscription, the two fleets will have a very similar yield after a given period of time. Multiboxing does not affect cycles times or warp speeds, In fact, if both fleets use the same method of hauling the ore to station and returning, the fleet with twenty persons will probably have the advantage.  The haulers for the 20 person fleet will have 20 (presumably) brains to keep track of what needs to be hauled and when while the single player will have a single brain to keep track of the hauling as nothing is automated or on a timer, but operated by the direct input using mouse/keyboard.

I think the real issue here is some players are butt hurt that some other players individual wallets get fatter quicker; but that is the basic tenet of Eve, ISK vs RISK. 

A single player has a better chance of not having a loss if a ganker appears and kills one two ships from that fleet as the rest bug out to different celestials .  The multiboxed fleet owner will always suffer losses to a ganker who appears in the fleet area as it is very difficult to align 20 multiboxed ships and then have them depart together to a single celestial without a lot of bumping and banging so a sufficiently large and swift-killing host of gankers using neuts or webs can take down the whole multiboxed fleet before concorde can intervene.  Again, it is an unlikely example but one I fear many people see as happening all the time. It may be happening in some instances, but that possiblilty is way above my level.

I only have 12 accounts and primarily use IS Boxer to log in and do things like clear the mail cache.  I use fleet commands for travel movements and most other multiple character activities.  Honestly, using four toons each with their overview having just the ore for each miner's crystal, it is too much of a headache to multibox and keep up with changing filters, moving the ship with the fewer kern roids to mine and to keep in range.  There are options on IS boxer I don't use, because I'm not a coder and the instructions are not non-coder friendly.  So instead of setting up the fleet with a unique to task overview for each ship with a different task, I just set up one overview with all items so I can hop from one character to another and pick what I want that one to do.  Some players are more efficient with the construction of the framework so each character will do the task the player wants done when the player presses the key or clicks the mouse. Being on the cusp of turning 68, my bucket is not deep enough to add that to the list.

On the other side of this, I am at a disadvantage of getting my subscription worth of play, even though I plex, it is evident that many people don't know that is not playing for free and taking money out of Eve's pocket, but really someone else who sells me a plex they paid 20 bux for is used by me to pay my 15 buck subscription so Eve wins.

Thank you,
All the Random Tremor Members or just me

    
Raziel Walker
NPC Tax Evasion Corp
#1102 - 2014-11-26 07:48:43 UTC
As they said, Christmas came early this year.

No multiplication of commands to different eve clients allowed. Not really difficult to read either for all those people trying to find loopholes or excuses.

It doesn't matter what tool is used, isboxer, custom keyboard, tictac box or a wooden stick. What matters is the effect achieved.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#1103 - 2014-11-26 07:49:37 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
As I previously posted, I'm uncertain what "Input Broadcasting" and "Input Multiplexing" mean; are they the same thing?

I can't find any useful answer via Google either.


EULA would be a good catergory Smile



While 'Input Broadcasting' is a valid rule, the term 'Input Multiplexing' seems to disallow what I'm assuming should still be a valid use case; one (or more) input source demux'ed to one of multiple possible channels based on user input (aka multiboxing across several clients with input always restricted to a single client at the time)

Nyan

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1104 - 2014-11-26 07:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
I've removed a lot of off topic and trolling posts.

Please keep it on topic and civil.

This is not an afk cloaking thread.

Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1105 - 2014-11-26 08:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
HELL YEAH
Huge props for having balls to get a real fix for the real issue.
Not a band-aid, like jump fatigue.
And not solving imaginary problem, like removing clone costs.
No.
This time, it's a good job.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#1106 - 2014-11-26 08:34:49 UTC
Holy cow. Shocked

After all this time and dodging the hot bullet CCP finally did it.



Father... father, the sleeper has awakened!

*\o/*
Hulky Boy
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#1107 - 2014-11-26 08:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Hulky Boy
Yes I'm cut, people need to have a cry because they suck and need to ruin this game for people that have actually made it over the last 10 years. If you don't like people using is-boxer don't go into systems where there are 30 people with similar names, its a dead give away that something bad might happen. If you think its unfair that some people pay 30 billion ISK a month to plex their accounts to have this privilege well you also suck.

Is-Boxer is fair everybody can use it. If you don't it means you cant expect to solo people that do. Get some more friends and come back with a bigger fleet. I love how 1 person can pawn a whole fleet it makes you fell good. CCP stop killing the fun.
RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#1108 - 2014-11-26 08:39:34 UTC
A lot of hairs will be split even those who see only black and white, there is still a lot of gray. I think the people who see in two starkly contrasting lights just don't really understand how it works. Hell, I don't understand how most of it works, but I have a question

One of the uses I have besides logging in and being able to have the screens for each account arrayed in small boxes across the top of the screen and the one I am actually working in taking up the other 90% of my 30 inch screen, is when I do housekeeping chores, like turning on broadcasting, which is almost always off, then hitting escape in the main window, whcih brings it up in all the other windows which have the same aspect ratio, then clicking on my working screen to clear the mail cache and the mail cache in all the accounts is cleared. Will I really have an unfair advantage doing that and stifle all the rest of the players?

Thank you.
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#1109 - 2014-11-26 08:40:06 UTC
After making several past threads on the isboxing issue I am glad to see that CCP are finally doing the right thing.

It's akin to botting because the effects are the same and that isboxer supports argument is based only on a technicality. While we're bound to see a reduction in accounts from some heavy isboxer users, it can only be good for the game in the long run. The current situation was out of hand and was only worsening.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1110 - 2014-11-26 08:45:56 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions.


isbotter is obvious, randomized or not. You will be busted, for right.

GeeBee wrote:
Mining Sucks, if someone wants to use isboxer to mine it should be fair game.

if mining sucks, dont do it and leave the field for people who enjoy doing it, instead of destroying their play by your 60 botted miners.


Rain6637 wrote:

no comment. but this is what i was thinking. curious if ISBoxer author will pull the plug on EVE or decide to make ISBoxer smarter, cuz that's all it would take. If you know what ISBoxer is capable of, you'd know there's no way for EVE to detect ISBoxer.

a lot of people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Multiboxing is the best way to play EVE.

the cries about "a multiboxer killed me" are bullshit. when you undock you sign off on whatever you encounter in space.


yo, if you feel smart, keep doing and enjoy your ban later. Eve doesnt have to recognize isbotter, players will.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#1111 - 2014-11-26 08:48:26 UTC
RUS Comannder wrote:

I only have 12 accounts


That kind of quote makes me laugh

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#1112 - 2014-11-26 08:48:36 UTC
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1113 - 2014-11-26 08:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Intrepid
Restrict Lennelluc wrote:
I knew it would come down to this. So many butthurt EVE players whose endless rants and mindless chatter led to this. What do you expect from players who can't accomplish things on their own and resort to rage over others who do succeed. It goes to show that the havenots will always remain in their raging mindset and will stop at nothing to ruin other peoples fun.

With that being said, as of now all 15 accounts have been closed. Goodbye CCP, I will take myself elsewhere where a players time and currency spent ingame is appreciated.

P.S. I'm still LOLing due to the fact that us ISBoxers have had such a great impact on this game and so many players are butthurt due to us.

ISBoxers be proud and Box on!


If you require third party software to play EVE then perhaps EVE isn't for you. Either play within the rules like the rest of us or leave. Due to your attidude from your post I say good riddance to you.

I laugh at people with 5 accounts who claim they will quit because of this. Why do you need software to multibox such a small number of accounts? I do ganks on more than that at once, manually, I don't require "special" help to play the game. It is possible to use each window manually you know. It just requires effort, but I suppose you need extra help to make it all easy for you.
La Doktoro
Doomheim
#1114 - 2014-11-26 08:52:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Decoy
*snip* ~ ISD Decoy


IsBoxer isn't banned just one feature of it. The broadcast feature. one keypress or mouse click to many clients

A feature that can be worked around very easily and still be following the rules with nominal impact. I've already switched over
Donida Azaph
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1115 - 2014-11-26 08:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Donida Azaph
drummendejef maaktnietuit wrote:
So, this will be banable too?

Hardware Method


LOL...

Remember: Live is what you have when the PC is OFF and and the bright sunlight is not a near-death experience. Lol
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1116 - 2014-11-26 09:02:20 UTC
La Doktoro wrote:

IsBoxer isn't banned just one feature of it.

right. Actually the only feature, errybody was using isbotter for.
Brutus Le'montac
#1117 - 2014-11-26 09:02:33 UTC
Donida Azaph wrote:
drummendejef maaktnietuit wrote:
So, this will be banable too?

Hardware Method


LOL...

Remember: Live is that you have when the PC is OFF and and the bright sunlight is not a near-death experience. Lol


that that...tha... ok, THAT IS FUNNY

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!

TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1118 - 2014-11-26 09:02:40 UTC
CCP. I love you man. I love you. You had never really lost my respect to begin with but if you had, just your actions in the past 6 months would have regained it. You are on an amazing streak of awesomeness, please keep it up.

I assume we'll see the number of bans and warnings after january 1st presented on Fanfest in March, right? Because that's some info I would love to see while sitting in a quiet ice belt without multiboxers. And the impact of this change is something I am very interested in seeing, mostly PLEX prices and market prices for just about anything.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#1119 - 2014-11-26 09:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: RUS Comannder
Altrue wrote:
RUS Comannder wrote:

I only have 12 accounts


That kind of quote makes me laugh



A long time ago when I started playing in 2004, no one knew this game would be around for long, so I specialized players to trade, to mine to pvp and to build. There was no Eve approved way to move one character to a different account, not even between accounts I owned hange one character to another account so you could eventually have three specially trained characters who only need to be played for a few minutes each week or so could not be done, as only one character could train at a time and you could not train one up and then add it to another account and just logon and logoff to whichever of them was needed. You could not train more than one character per account at a time, and 15 bucks for an account is nothing to me. If I had full use of the limbs I still have, my monthly eve costs would not cover one green's fee where I used to play several time a week. Even though Ebay was then full of ships, characters and accounts, it was against the rules and I am a rule follower, not breaker.

Now that they all have 150mil to 200mil of SP, they can all do just about anything. Besides, I like funneling out 9 shiny Machs, two Scimis with perfect training and and a booster command ship with 7 links all hot at the same time with all leadership skill at 5, and of course, they all have the most complementary implants in all 10 slots to match their tasks, and then to just take them around the block and find a new player whorking hard who never asks for anything and bestow a little scholarship on he or she to help them along. But a hard and fast rule is never to anyone who asks for it, but meets their obstacles head on and works to adapt and overcome.

So in the interest of time savings and meeting the tasks needed to be a well rounded player, I built a corp for myself, while having one player in a corp with 70 or so other friends.

Let me see if there is anything about you I can laugh about - oh wait, I don't do that.
Hikemi Karrado
Groesstenteils Harmlos
#1120 - 2014-11-26 09:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hikemi Karrado
Actually a good move from CCP to clarify that.

ISBoxer should now have a "comply to CCP rules" button so that users can decide if the want to risk a ban or not.

For me, I'm looking for an alternate product like ISBoxer. It's just too expensive (well, talking about the driver) for an "Eve display optimizer" with a concurrent logon feature.