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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Comrade Blade
Licence To Kill
Mercenary Coalition
#1121 - 2014-11-26 09:12:30 UTC
1) Thank you CCP for a great change. Keep.up the awesome work.
2) Thank you whinging ISBoxers, your tears and threats to unsub have made the slow trip home from work so.much more enjoyable :)
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#1122 - 2014-11-26 09:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Hulky Boy wrote:
Yes I'm cut, people need to have a cry because they suck and need to ruin this game for people that have actually made it over the last 10 years. If you don't like people using is-boxer don't go into systems where there are 30 people with similar names. [...]If you think its unfair that some people pay 30 billion ISK a month to plex their accounts to have this privilege well you also suck.


Please cry louder. I don't understand the part where you accuse the regular players ruining the (your?) game with this change.

As someone who owns 2 active accounts (not 12, 14, 20 or even more) I appreciate that people like you finally have to become normal again. \o/

You shouldn't have the legal possibility to use a third party tool which enables you to greatly increases your income ( I posted a comment from YT where ISboxers state to get 1.4 billion /hour to 6 billion/day). Telling me "everyone can do it" (aka cheat) doesn't change anything. Not I am ruining the game, people like you ruin the game.

I am paying for my accounts because I cannot afford spending so much time on earning isk/month and I am way below 1.4 billion isk/hour (more in the region of 20-60 million/hour).

All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume. Kicking people like you doesn't hurt the game. Plex will become chaeper again. Prices are already dropping (1 billion -> under 875k) and maybe at some point a regular player like me is able to purchase a plex on the market again. I plan to do this, not to pay for one ac but to use dual training.

So long and if you now cancel all your accounts:

1) Please give me your stuff
2) Go to another game and isbox there, I hope you like it (I recommend WOW)
3) Don't believe any normla player will miss you or cry because of the drop of "active" boxing accounts
Shivanthar
#1123 - 2014-11-26 09:21:37 UTC
I've read some posts after "Tears incoming" post in the first page.

TL;DR of all of this thing:
-CCP Falcon: FussssSSsssSSSss-ROOOOOO-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH on a subject.
-Some Playerbase: "TearTearTearTear but I can live with that"
-Some thinking they're special and this shouldn't be applied to them: "Gonna unsub EVEEERY one of my chars".

Result: Fair game. Now I know it. That ship staying there is manually controlled and focused by a single person. Finally...

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.

Devious Johnson
Doomheim
#1124 - 2014-11-26 09:21:51 UTC
[
Hulky Boy wrote:
Yes I'm cut, people need to have a cry because they suck and need to ruin this game for people that have actually made it over the last 10 years. If you don't like people using is-boxer don't go into systems where there are 30 people with similar names, its a dead give away that something bad might happen. If you think its unfair that some people pay 30 billion ISK a month to plex their accounts to have this privilege well you also suck.

Is-Boxer is fair everybody can use it. If you don't it means you cant expect to solo people that do. Get some more friends and come back with a bigger fleet. I love how 1 person can pawn a whole fleet it makes you fell good. CCP stop killing the fun.


To all isboxers who are having a cry like the above botter.

- I am traveling around the universe visiting all the ice belts with a custom fitted epithal tear tanker. Please use the tanker provided and nearby barren planets will thank you.

Let the death of your playstyle green the earth.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#1125 - 2014-11-26 09:23:11 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions.


isbotter is obvious, randomized or not. You will be busted, for right.

Too bad I'm talking strictly about hardware macros done with mouse and keyboard drivers. My Logitech mouse has a scripting feature which can be used to do exactly what I described, and no ISBoxer is involved. For CCP to be able to detect that sort of thing on a broad scale, they'd need to utilize levels of spyware dickery that would make Israel's military blush.

Suggestion: learn how to read.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Sturmwolke
#1126 - 2014-11-26 09:23:31 UTC
Well, this is the most significant thing that CCP has done for 2014, the question right now if they have the balls to stand firm on it. You can definitely expect proponents against this to go on a campaign/crusade/propaganda war to either nullify or attempt to bend it to maintain status quo.

Mutiplexed automation (i.e. ISBoxing) slowly killed the game, which then degenerated into very heavy metagaming. Not to say that EVE itself doesn't involve a certain amount of metagaming, the Age of ISBoxing screwed pretty much, most of the casuals/semi-casuals players*, squeezing them out from serious competition due to the economics of scale by the very few hardcore players. This parallels in RL where megacorps transforms into shadow governments after wielding too much influence through monopolies - an effective oligarchy. Common principle, concentrating powers into the hands of the few without checks and balance, will never end well, regardless of any justifications given.

Anyway, imo, this is a good move, belatedly 2-3 years late ... but better late than never.

* defined as normal avg players (at most 2-3 accounts). When you go to extremes by having 5-10 accounts, plus an ISKBoxer account, thats no longer average.
Infact, that treads into the hardcore category.
Lee Janssen
Zero Fun Allowed
#1127 - 2014-11-26 09:23:38 UTC
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no tears, only dreams now.
Chalithra Lathar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1128 - 2014-11-26 09:24:02 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume.


WRONG

Players who use PLEX simply use in-game currency in exchange for someone else to pay their subscription. Why this escapes some people is beyond me.
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1129 - 2014-11-26 09:25:01 UTC
I do have to say that if mirrored input broadcasting isn't detectible and dealt with quickly and automatically this is going to be a very rough and annoying process relying on players policing each other with a silly amount of witchhunt and accusations going on between players that shouldn't be happening. If you cannot stop it without players reporting each or micro scoping players manually to detect it then this entire policy change is a load of uselessness and exercise in futility. Since botting is still a problem and identifying bots and reporting them is still a problem I am doubtful, but please prove me wrong.
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1130 - 2014-11-26 09:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Intrepid
Hikemi Karrado wrote:
Actually a good move from CCP to clarify that.

ISBoxer should now have a "comply to CCP rules" button so that users can decide if the want to risk a ban or not.

For me, I'm looking for an alternate product like ISBoxer. It's just too expensive (well, talking about the driver) for an "Eve display optimizer" with a concurrent logon feature.


You don't realise that you're wasting your time? Input mirroring is banned. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's not allowed. If you find some crazy work around but it has the same effect and looks the same to CCP then you will be banned. There's no point in trying to get around it. You can choose to adapt or leave.

We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.
Vulfen
Project Valhalla.
#1131 - 2014-11-26 09:26:51 UTC
I have serious questions of how CCP are going to actually police this?

An ISboxer running around 5-10 accounts might be easy to spot but someone running just 2/3 might be able to avoid detection easier, i'm sure ISboxer will take no time in implementing some measures to make it's program harder to detect. i.e adding a delay to each remote user, so it does not appear as if the same user is performing the same action at the same time.
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1132 - 2014-11-26 09:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Intrepid
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions.


isbotter is obvious, randomized or not. You will be busted, for right.

Too bad I'm talking strictly about hardware macros done with mouse and keyboard drivers. My Logitech mouse has a scripting feature which can be used to do exactly what I described, and no ISBoxer is involved. For CCP to be able to detect that sort of thing on a broad scale, they'd need to utilize levels of spyware dickery that would make Israel's military blush.

Suggestion: learn how to read.


You should learn to read. Isboxer is not banned, input broadcasting is. And you would be right to assume that if you find some way to achieve the effect of input broadcasting or something closely related through other means then CCP will enforce their rules and ban you anyway.

We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1133 - 2014-11-26 09:33:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Too bad I'm talking strictly about hardware macros done with mouse and keyboard drivers. My Logitech mouse has a scripting feature which can be used to do exactly what I described, and no ISBoxer is involved.


It's your account but I wouldn't try that as per the first post. At least ask the GMs first if you think your setup is valid before trying it out. Here's the relevant bit.

Quote:
We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.

Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1134 - 2014-11-26 09:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Intrepid
Vulfen wrote:
I have serious questions of how CCP are going to actually police this?

An ISboxer running around 5-10 accounts might be easy to spot but someone running just 2/3 might be able to avoid detection easier, i'm sure ISboxer will take no time in implementing some measures to make it's program harder to detect. i.e adding a delay to each remote user, so it does not appear as if the same user is performing the same action at the same time.


Would it not be correct to assume that if the developers of isboxer try to circumvent the rules of EVE online that perhaps CCP will go ahead and outright ban isboxer use altogether? If they have a way to detect isboxer being ran on a machine, that would solve many problems of detection.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1135 - 2014-11-26 09:36:17 UTC
Agent Intrepid wrote:
Hikemi Karrado wrote:
Actually a good move from CCP to clarify that.

ISBoxer should now have a "comply to CCP rules" button so that users can decide if the want to risk a ban or not.

For me, I'm looking for an alternate product like ISBoxer. It's just too expensive (well, talking about the driver) for an "Eve display optimizer" with a concurrent logon feature.


You don't realise that you're wasting your time? Input mirroring is banned. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's not allowed. If you find some crazy work around but it has the same effect and looks the same to CCP then you will be banned. There's no point in trying to get around it. You can choose to adapt or leave.

We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.

Way to read. Post you quoted is looking for something to do the display optimization as freeware.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

corebloodbrothers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1136 - 2014-11-26 09:37:51 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
So now for the real question.....

Will this generate more of fewer tears than when drone assist gets removed from the game??

(part 4 of the projection nerf)



Drine assit got nerfed ages ago, too 5o max, and is hardly a thign anymore
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1137 - 2014-11-26 09:37:55 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Agent Intrepid wrote:
Hikemi Karrado wrote:
Actually a good move from CCP to clarify that.

ISBoxer should now have a "comply to CCP rules" button so that users can decide if the want to risk a ban or not.

For me, I'm looking for an alternate product like ISBoxer. It's just too expensive (well, talking about the driver) for an "Eve display optimizer" with a concurrent logon feature.


You don't realise that you're wasting your time? Input mirroring is banned. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's not allowed. If you find some crazy work around but it has the same effect and looks the same to CCP then you will be banned. There's no point in trying to get around it. You can choose to adapt or leave.

We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.

Way to read. Post you quoted is looking for something to do the display optimization as freeware.


But if that's all he wants to use it for, then why he is seeking an alternative? CCP only outlawed input broadcasting.
corebloodbrothers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1138 - 2014-11-26 09:39:53 UTC
Agent Intrepid wrote:
Vulfen wrote:
I have serious questions of how CCP are going to actually police this?

An ISboxer running around 5-10 accounts might be easy to spot but someone running just 2/3 might be able to avoid detection easier, i'm sure ISboxer will take no time in implementing some measures to make it's program harder to detect. i.e adding a delay to each remote user, so it does not appear as if the same user is performing the same action at the same time.


Would it not be correct to assume that if the developers of isboxer try to circumvent the rules of EVE online that perhaps CCP will go ahead and outright ban isboxer use altogether? If they have a way to detect isboxer being ran on a machine, that would solve many problems of detection.



No u dont want to bann a program, as it means u allow others, u dont want to enter the slippery slope. U state what use amd actions are illegal, and that gives room too handle with new developments. Its about intent, not excact debate off words.
This is not about isboxer. Its about eve, and whats allowed and what not. I stand up and applaud this one.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#1139 - 2014-11-26 09:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
Dustpuppy wrote:
All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume.


WRONG

Players who use PLEX simply use in-game currency in exchange for someone else to pay their subscription. Why this escapes some people is beyond me.


Well I will be glad to pay 350 mio isk to fund e.g. an additional account or to do dual training on a single account so I will buy it instead of you (or someone else). The amount of plex consumed won't change, only the price in isk paid for it on the market will change.

Removing these isboxer guys just will reduce the income faucet which can be used to keep the plex price on this high level, that's all. It will make regular players who do't want to run 10-20 clients at the same time more competitive.

And the wind of change is already blowing. Plex price around 875k on the market is a clear sign :)

If you don't like it, i can recommend to sing the song "This is the end" (Doors) while unsubscribing. \o/
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1140 - 2014-11-26 09:41:41 UTC
Agent Intrepid wrote:
Vulfen wrote:
I have serious questions of how CCP are going to actually police this?

An ISboxer running around 5-10 accounts might be easy to spot but someone running just 2/3 might be able to avoid detection easier, i'm sure ISboxer will take no time in implementing some measures to make it's program harder to detect. i.e adding a delay to each remote user, so it does not appear as if the same user is performing the same action at the same time.


Would it not be correct to assume that if the developers of isboxer try to circumvent the rules of EVE online that perhaps CCP will go ahead and outright ban isboxer use altogether? If they have way to detect isboxer being ran on a machine, that would solve many problems of detection.

They don't without implementing security measures that don't play nice with many many sorts of connections. There is no process spy worked into them other than for concurrent usage of other eve clients, and changing that would lead to many more unsubs, for much better reason. I'm sure that it can be done, and that CCP has a reasonably competent programmer who knows how to write such a thing. I also know I'mma unsub and do my best to foul the economy if such a bletcherous change happens.

As it stands, they only get the input from the client and it has a non-reporting lockout of multiple clients that only trips for trial accounts, which is the only reason I haven't already unsubbed for it having installed something usable as limited spyware.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp