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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#681 - 2014-11-25 20:38:05 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
GOMMEL NOX
"That said, I really don't think it would beThe best plan for CCP to treat me as a special case for two reasons: first, I'm not the only disabled player in this stupid game. Second, if they made an exception for me with a spinal cord injury, why couldn't they make a similar exception for someone who has MS, But more fine motor skills. Slippery slope, etc. etc."


Determined to buid the best case to undermines the change eh?
If what you say is true, you will contact CCP and give them a chance to help you.
If you are just trolling the changes, well that's your choice.

More than likely. Big smile

However, since CCP's policy clearly focuses on controlling more than one client or completely automating game play, trying to loop his "special circumstances" into the mix is pretty far fetched.

If it's a troll, it's a bad one.
If it's genuine, he clearly has nothing to worry about... so nobody really is too worried about his posts.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#682 - 2014-11-25 20:38:32 UTC
Please Turn wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Astroyka wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Astroyka wrote:
I think this is great news for EvE as a whole. I really don't think the unsubs will hit CCP that hard since most of the multiboxers were probably "paying" for their accounts with PLEX anyway.

Stop being dumb. It irritates me the amount of people here who still seem to have no clue what PLEX does or how it works.


Enlighten me, great one.

Here's a hint:
PLEX does not take subscription money away from CCP.


Well, it does and it doesn't. There is more than one angle from which one should look at this topic. At a first glance, the common approach - "somebody has to pay for that PLEX with real money(at a higher price than the subscription price)" indicates that it doesn't, hence CCP shouldn't care. In this case, Astroyka is wrong, and this move will hurt CCP(short term) more than he realizes.

However, as most things in life, everything is a matter of balance. As I see it, PLEX'ing the accounts(I'm speaking about using a PLEX for subscription) is getting out of hands right now. Is just so easy for too many people(they can all do it simultaneously) to AFK "print" ISK by ratting(Ishtar, Dominix - looking at you right now), to AFK gather resources and so on. Broadcasting commands were(are) a big factor in allowing this type of "game play"(not the only factor, that's for sure).

What most people don't put into this equation is the loss in "potential" long term subscribers due to newbies quitting once they start noticing all the 20+ nerds accounts(which are so common these days) floating around against whom they feel like having zero chances of competing(and who could blame them).

Last thought, Eve should be about playing Eve for the sake of Eve not for the sake of PLEX'ing your account(s) and maybe making some money out of it(RMT ). All I can say about this change is that I'm glad they finally push it through and that I'm a little sad it took them so long to do it(let's hope I'm not speaking too soon and they won't go back on their word(again)).


You missed the even biggest part of the PLEX equation. The plex reselled (the one who gives CCP the monies)

I am one of these. I use plex to get enough isk to buy a shiney. I don't resell plex to have that isk sitting in my account. The higher the plex ISK price goes, the less plex I need to buy from CCP to buy my shiney. The lower the plex price, the more I buy to get that same amount of isk. Too low, and I don't bother buying plex and farm instead.

In general, PLEX supply has been fairly steady for years. It's the demand end that's been having problems. I very much doubt CCP will lose real £££ ($$$/whatever) from loss of plex subcribers on this basis. If plex demand falls, isk value falls, meaning I need to buy more to get my stuff.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#683 - 2014-11-25 20:39:06 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Querns wrote:
Cue several dozen pages of people trying to invent increasingly complex vignettes that attempt to subvert the letter of the decision to legitimize actions that violate its spirit.


"But what if I set it up to delay my "broadcasts" by a random few milliseconds, so it looks like I'm pushing buttans on 32 computers in a row really fast... is that ok?"


They would still be syched, and show the exact same delay every time, even if you set up multiple delays say 500000 different ones, there's still a pattern = ban.
Generally in the past people haven't had a issue with is boxer when it was confined to mining however as times have gone on people have started using it for more things, incursion fleets, and the main one which will have forced CCP to reconsider and re evaluate things, PvP.

Good bye is boxer you won't be missed by the majority
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#684 - 2014-11-25 20:39:11 UTC
Sylphy wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Incidentally, PLEX prices are already dropping, over 50mil since the announcement.


Let's check PLEX prices again in 3 months and see who was right, shall we? Marking your name and my calendar for a regular check-up on Feb 25th, 2015. I'll contact you in-game.

You might want to put the rest of EVE on that calendar as well, you can start with me. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Apo Lamperouge
#685 - 2014-11-25 20:39:18 UTC
Toria Nynys wrote:
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:
However, using an exploit to cover the cost of subscription isn't really subscribing, If no one spent real money on the game there would be no game to play.



The cost of subscription is always paid with real money. There may simply be less buyers of PLEX but we don't have enough information to make a definitive conclusion.



How do you figure? If you are mining 2b a day with these 25+ miners, and a plex is/was say 850m, lets do the math

$15 x 25 = $375 per month.

However, if you are mining say 2b a day, for only 20 days a month out of 30, then your 2b x 20d = 40b

850,000,000 x 25 accounts = 21.25b

That still leaves you with a net profit of 18.75b/month isk.

And you tell me that you are PAYING to play? Are you sh!tting me?

Come on. What moron who profits 18b a month actually BUYS their game time. I may have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.



Your math is off. I overheard someone claiming 2-3B a day mining in null with 11 accounts. 25 should bring in somewhere around double that (there is some loss to inefficiency, it's not a straight linear increase). So it's roughly the same amount of work to PLEX accounts whether it's 1 or 25. But AFTER they're paid for the income scales nearly linearly with each additional account. Think closer to 40B a month with "just" 11 accounts to painlessly pew with, double it for 25.


I stand corrected. Lol

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
KeeperRus
Doomheim
#686 - 2014-11-25 20:40:03 UTC
So since everyone is crapping their pants or cheering... Does that mean also coming Jan 1ST that PL is only allowed to fly sub capitals?


Lol
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#687 - 2014-11-25 20:40:22 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I'm looking forward to mineral prices rising by a few percent, and PLEX dropping significantly. That's the impact this change will have on me. I might even re-sub some of my accounts once the price of PLEX falls back to within my capacity to pay.


nerfing incursions in high sec would help deflate PLEX prices

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#688 - 2014-11-25 20:40:37 UTC
I highly endorse this change, despite knowing several people that have found innovative uses for it.

Removing the competitive advantages gained in-game through ISBoxer improves the integrity of the game.

I would like to thank a certain person (you know who you are) that helped make this happen by ISBoxing entire gank fleets.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#689 - 2014-11-25 20:40:53 UTC
Watching the PLEX rollercoaster has been very amusing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#690 - 2014-11-25 20:40:58 UTC
Jon Hellguard wrote:
Prepare for epic inflation in the character transfer market starting january 1st, 2015. Big smile


No. There will be epic deflation due to over-supply. ISBoxers will be issuing fire-sales. In the meantime many mining alts will be reactivated. I expect very few players will be buying up the extra mining alts or nullsec ratting alts because many of them already have the alts on mothballed accounts.

Of course we also have the stream of new players entering the game who are yet to understand just how mind-numbingly boring mining and ratting can be.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#691 - 2014-11-25 20:42:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Mildew Wolf wrote:
)))


My god, your avatar is genuinely disturbing.

Lol



im with you there ShockedShockedShocked

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Systimus
Doomheim
#692 - 2014-11-25 20:45:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Systimus wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Systimus wrote:
I use isboxer to mine with 4 accounts. Never have pvp'd with it. I don't use constantly but might use it to activate auto pilot or to dock. If I'm reading this correctly, this action with be banned . So no point in having 4 accounts so might as well cancel 3 of them.

Elite dangerous is out soon. Maybe cancel all 4 and have a go at that instead.

If you never used it to do anything other than auto pilot or dock, why would this bother you at all? Smile

You should probably get your story straight.

Personally I don't care one way or the other, but there are a few good points to all this.

1: Restrictions on bomber use don't have to be as severe.
2: More people will be able to make their living mining.
3: Wealth is better distributed across the general population of miners.
4: PLEX prices will drop quickly, which will be welcome news to many.

To explain the latter, your average ISBoxer miner pays for all of his accounts with PLEX purchased off the market with ISK. His tolerance for higher PLEX prices is MUCH higher than the average EVE player due to his extremely high income stream per account he is funding. In other words, the large number of "high rollers" providing a steady market for over priced PLEX will be sharply and suddenly curtailed.

Which I never had a problem with ISBoxer being in game, even I have to admit this helps to solve a lot of problems.


Ranger, I find you really offensive. My story straight ?

I think ccp need to clarify what they intend to ban. Any action that affects the universe ...... If using auto pilot or docking is specifically excempt then please ccp clarify. Also, I have never plexd any account and pay for all 4 every month with real money. I don't do pvp on any of my accounts and I find mining relaxing. I feel mining with 1 account a little boring but mining with 4 much more enjoyable. Do I gave an advantage over someone playing with a single account maybe. But if they wanted to pay for 4 accounts they could have that advantage too.

You aren't making much sense my friend.

Multiple accounts are still fine.

Using ISBoxer to control them all with simultaneously is not fine.

Are you seriously asking us to believe that if the program you use to "auto pilot or dock" your 4 accounts with is taken away things will become to complicated for you and you'll need to cancel accounts? REALLY? Big smile


The opening post stated the following;

'Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation.

This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters'

This rules out more or less any use of ISBOXER to activate an autopilot button, or to dock my 4 accounts simultaneously. As I have stated previously, I don't pvp and have 4 accounts all of which I pay real money for each month. I don't consider myself to have an unfair advantage as I am paying for all 4 accounts. If anyone else wants to pay for more than 4 accounts they would have an advantage over me. good luck to them. Maybe get rid of plex's and stop macro miners self funding their players if that what the problem is.

I don't agree with macro mining and look dimly on those that do. I don't and have never plex'd any of my accounts - I pay real money each month for all 4 accounts. One account I have had for nearly 10 years. A second account, 9.5 years. I enjoy mining as I find it relaxing but mining with one account is boring but I find it much more enjoyable with 4. I don't make huge use of multi-broadcasting but I might use it to dock or maybe activate the autopilot which I consider to be trivial but would carry the same penalty as someone caught multi-broadcasting to 80 accounts. I find ISBOXER convenient to use but I may find myself at the wrong end of CCP action should I accidently use a function I shouldn't. And yes, if I find myself subject to a 30 day ban that I felt unjust, I will be looking elsewhere for an online game to play.
Truatho Bannon
Siegreicher Marsch
#693 - 2014-11-25 20:45:35 UTC
Disappointing news. Good time to break for the holidays.
Apo Lamperouge
#694 - 2014-11-25 20:46:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jon Hellguard wrote:
Prepare for epic inflation in the character transfer market starting january 1st, 2015. Big smile


No. There will be epic deflation due to over-supply. ISBoxers will be issuing fire-sales. In the meantime many mining alts will be reactivated. I expect very few players will be buying up the extra mining alts or nullsec ratting alts because many of them already have the alts on mothballed accounts.

Of course we also have the stream of new players entering the game who are yet to understand just how mind-numbingly boring mining and ratting can be.



That works for me. Ratting isn't all that bad, especially when you get Officers :)

Now I can buy a perfect miner for cheap, so I can build all those Bhaalgorn BPC's I keep getting

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
CCP Falcon
#695 - 2014-11-25 20:47:10 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
CCP, what is your stance on ISBoxing ship spinning of accounts simultaneously?


[img]http://i.imgur.com/fAe9Wqz.jpg[/img]

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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Rear Admiral Charlie
Dank Krabs and Spicy Memes
Rainbow Knights
#696 - 2014-11-25 20:47:34 UTC
All this thread has turned into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHECSCcE2PU
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#697 - 2014-11-25 20:47:38 UTC
Plex prices dropping from lack of ISBoxing = more people buying plex to MCT and other things.
Plex consumption will likely not change very much. Plex prices in game may drop however. But the in game price doesn't have a direct effect on CCP's wallet, only an indirect effect, and we don't know how the supply of plex has changed as prices increased. Or how much was simply due to manipulation.
Apo Lamperouge
#698 - 2014-11-25 20:48:30 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
CCP, what is your stance on ISBoxing ship spinning of accounts simultaneously?


[img]http://i.imgur.com/fAe9Wqz.jpg[/img]



Lol

Does it gain you an unfair advantage over the other ship spinners?

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#699 - 2014-11-25 20:48:51 UTC
Systimus wrote:

You aren't making much sense my friend.

Multiple accounts are still fine.

Using ISBoxer to control them all with simultaneously is not fine.

Are you seriously asking us to believe that if the program you use to "auto pilot or dock" your 4 accounts with is taken away things will become to complicated for you and you'll need to cancel accounts? REALLY? Big smile


The opening post stated the following;

'Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation.

This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters'

This rules out more or less any use of ISBOXER to activate an autopilot button, or to dock my 4 accounts simultaneously. As I have stated previously, I don't pvp and have 4 accounts all of which I pay real money for each month. I don't consider myself to have an unfair advantage as I am paying for all 4 accounts. If anyone else wants to pay for more than 4 accounts they would have an advantage over me. good luck to them. Maybe get rid of plex's and stop macro miners self funding their players if that what the problem is.

I don't agree with macro mining and look dimly on those that do. I don't and have never plex'd any of my accounts - I pay real money each month for all 4 accounts. One account I have had for nearly 10 years. A second account, 9.5 years. I enjoy mining as I find it relaxing but mining with one account is boring but I find it much more enjoyable with 4. I don't make huge use of multi-broadcasting but I might use it to dock or maybe activate the autopilot which I consider to be trivial but would carry the same penalty as someone caught multi-broadcasting to 80 accounts. I find ISBOXER convenient to use but I may find myself at the wrong end of CCP action should I accidently use a function I shouldn't. And yes, if I find myself subject to a 30 day ban that I felt unjust, I will be looking elsewhere for an online game to play.
[/quote]

You are overreacting.

In a nutshell for isboxers this does two things that i can think of:

1. It bans the use of the broadcast all feature.
2. It bans the use of clickbars that send commands to multiple characters.
Anslo
Scope Works
#700 - 2014-11-25 20:48:56 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
CCP, what is your stance on ISBoxing ship spinning of accounts simultaneously?


[img]http://i.imgur.com/fAe9Wqz.jpg[/img]


DOESN'T MAKE UP FOR SOV DROPPING

ONE JOB FALCON

ONE DAMN JOB YOU HAD

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